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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5889348" data-attributes="member: 87792">Let me stop you right there.&nbsp; With just the PHB (and the MM1) the big three (C/W/D) are already Tier 1.&nbsp; The Artificer only knows its writeup and the DMG items.&nbsp;&nbsp;You don't have as much to nova. &nbsp;&nbsp;Because what you have there is a daily system.&nbsp; It's the being on different recharge cycles that allows the novaing, not that one's powers the other fatigue.&nbsp; A wizard in classic D&amp;D can force most of a day's power through in short order.&nbsp; A fighter doesn't have this choice to nova because he doesn't have such a pacing mechanic.&nbsp;&nbsp;Which powers can practically guarantee a one hit kill?&nbsp; And why would you save your strength?&nbsp; That said, I'm going to reiterate that I think you want the Essentials Martial Classes - they generally have no daily powers and the encounter power essentials fighters and rangers get is Power Strike (+1[W] damage after rolling to hit and they can use it several times).&nbsp;Surprisingly few balance misses in 4e.&nbsp;&nbsp;Fair enough.&nbsp;&nbsp;Stop Thrusts might be a bad example to use.&nbsp;It's about player empowerment.&nbsp; A fatigue system might have been better (although it would have been a whole lot spammier).&nbsp; On the other hand hard coding into the rules that fighters can do seriously cool things was absolutely needed from a metagame perspective after 3.X.&nbsp;Most obviosu from a design perspective.&nbsp; But the results at the table are a different matter.&nbsp; A fatigue system normally leads to whole cases of spam as there's one trick that works better.&nbsp; And a fatigue-and-cumulative-penalty sytem is an extra layer of bookkeeping.&nbsp;QUOTE=Libramarian;5889266]That's cool, I'm happy as long as that's recognized as basically the issue -- AEDU as a balancing technique, rather than AEDU as a narrativist technique.</blockquote>I've drifted the game into At will/Scene/Episode pacing.&nbsp; The daily recharge has IMO not been good for anything.&nbsp; (This goes for all editions).&nbsp;&nbsp;Let me rephrase that statement.&nbsp; In 0-3e fighters can not pace themselves.&nbsp; And pacing yourself is one of the key skills of any sort of athlete.&nbsp; Which means that in 0-3E, by &quot;Trying his hardest all the time&quot; fighters are not even close to fighting smartly.&nbsp; Now a fatigue system (with the inherent spam) might have worked better.&nbsp; But the ability to pace yourself is a vast leap forward over any previous PHB fighter.&nbsp;&nbsp;Player empowerment?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 5889348, member: 87792"] Let me stop you right there. With just the PHB (and the MM1) the big three (C/W/D) are already Tier 1. The Artificer only knows its writeup and the DMG items. You don't have as much to nova. Because what you have there is a daily system. It's the being on different recharge cycles that allows the novaing, not that one's powers the other fatigue. A wizard in classic D&D can force most of a day's power through in short order. A fighter doesn't have this choice to nova because he doesn't have such a pacing mechanic. Which powers can practically guarantee a one hit kill? And why would you save your strength? That said, I'm going to reiterate that I think you want the Essentials Martial Classes - they generally have no daily powers and the encounter power essentials fighters and rangers get is Power Strike (+1[W] damage after rolling to hit and they can use it several times). Surprisingly few balance misses in 4e. Fair enough. Stop Thrusts might be a bad example to use. It's about player empowerment. A fatigue system might have been better (although it would have been a whole lot spammier). On the other hand hard coding into the rules that fighters can do seriously cool things was absolutely needed from a metagame perspective after 3.X. Most obviosu from a design perspective. But the results at the table are a different matter. A fatigue system normally leads to whole cases of spam as there's one trick that works better. And a fatigue-and-cumulative-penalty sytem is an extra layer of bookkeeping. QUOTE=Libramarian;5889266]That's cool, I'm happy as long as that's recognized as basically the issue -- AEDU as a balancing technique, rather than AEDU as a narrativist technique.[/QUOTE] I've drifted the game into At will/Scene/Episode pacing. The daily recharge has IMO not been good for anything. (This goes for all editions). Let me rephrase that statement. In 0-3e [I]fighters can not pace themselves[/I]. And pacing yourself is one of the key skills of any sort of athlete. Which means that in 0-3E, by "Trying his hardest all the time" fighters are not even close to fighting smartly. Now a fatigue system (with the inherent spam) might have worked better. But the ability to pace yourself is a vast leap forward over any previous PHB fighter. Player empowerment? [/QUOTE]

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