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Why is the Vancian system still so popular?
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5893938" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Do you know H2 Thunderspire Labyrinth? I levelled the Tower of Mysteries up, from suitable for 7th-ish to suitable for 14th-ish.</p><p></p><p>One of the encounters in that module is a demon trapped in a circle (as I ran it, a yochlol). It <em>can</em> get dragged into a bigger fight, but as my group played it it didn't. It tried to bargain, but they tricked its information out of it and then killed it.</p><p></p><p>I'm going to guess a bit of (a) and a bit of (b).</p><p></p><p>I can't remember all the details, but at least one of those encounters happened in waves - the one with the wyvern-riders, phalanx etc - in that (for example) the chimera wasn't released until the third or fourth round, when it became clear to the hobgoblins that a phalanx with archers backing it up was not going to be enough to take down the paladin.</p><p></p><p>And because elements of the encounter were physically separated - there was the paladin dealing with the land-based forces, while the rest of the party were 50 squares or so away dealing with the air-based forces. So the opportunities for the NPCs to maximally focus fire were constrained.</p><p></p><p>Together with this "waves" approach, I tend (not always, but certainly often) to use more enemies of party level or lower rather than fewer enemies of higher than party level (the yochlol being one exception to this, obviously).</p><p></p><p>The idea of limited power regaining is in DMG2, I think. I made the decision to offer the opportunity on the spot, because I thought it would introduce a bit of extra tension into the decision-making - preparing for the dragon while letting he chimera take free swings. And to that exent it worked.</p><p></p><p>The PCs in my game are:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">*dwarf fighter (multi-cleric)/Warpriest - strong, robust, polearm-wielding melee controller, with Athletics + Mighty Sprint is surprisingly mobile;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*elf ranger-cleric hybrid/Battlefield Archer - twin strike + some healing;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*tiefling CHA-paladin/Questing Knight - as robust as the fighter (lower hp, better defences, including Meliorating Armour), quite good damage output and more than one encounter AoE attack, some healing;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*drow chaos sorcerer (multi-monk)/Demonskin Adept - best damage dealer in the party (with a lot of close attacks - he uses the Flurry of Blows to stack on extra damage), some control also (inc from the Flurry of Blows), very mobile and a good selection of immediate actions that make him hard to hit;</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*human tome wizard (multi-invoker)/Divine Philosopher - some reasonable control (Bigby's Icy Hand, Wall of Fire, Thunderwave, Twist of Space), the lowest damage dealer in the party.</p><p></p><p>I try to spread the damage around, but they players are pretty good at focussing it on the two defenders. And the fighter, in particular, is very resilient: 126 hp, 14 surges, with a surge vaue of 34 (17 Con, Toughness, Dwarven Durabililty). And with multiple close bursts (encounter and daily), combat superiority, a lot of forced movement and knocking prone, etc, it is very hard for anyone to get away from him.</p><p></p><p>In the encounter sequence described above, the ranger was dropped to 13 hp and no surges by the fire dragon (Calastryx, from MV:TttNV), and then survived through the mooncalves, and the two encounters that followed that. The party did a fairly good job of protecting him, although at one point he did drop unconscious (but was revived with a surgeless healing potion from Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium).</p><p></p><p>As I said, I'm not the most vicious GM in the world, but I'm not a walkover either. The players play reasonably well.</p><p></p><p>My players don't talk about encounters and dailies in character. They talk about attacking foes, stopping them, locking them down etc.</p><p></p><p>They play with a fairly high degree of tactical coordination, although the paladin and wizard in particular are known for going solo a bit. But the others - especially the player of the sorcerer - are very good at following along and capitalising on openings. In character friction tends to come out more in Marvel superhero team style - wisecracks at one another's expense, for example, or ragging on a particular tactical choice, rather than actively subverting one another's efforts.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5893938, member: 42582"] Do you know H2 Thunderspire Labyrinth? I levelled the Tower of Mysteries up, from suitable for 7th-ish to suitable for 14th-ish. One of the encounters in that module is a demon trapped in a circle (as I ran it, a yochlol). It [I]can[/I] get dragged into a bigger fight, but as my group played it it didn't. It tried to bargain, but they tricked its information out of it and then killed it. I'm going to guess a bit of (a) and a bit of (b). I can't remember all the details, but at least one of those encounters happened in waves - the one with the wyvern-riders, phalanx etc - in that (for example) the chimera wasn't released until the third or fourth round, when it became clear to the hobgoblins that a phalanx with archers backing it up was not going to be enough to take down the paladin. And because elements of the encounter were physically separated - there was the paladin dealing with the land-based forces, while the rest of the party were 50 squares or so away dealing with the air-based forces. So the opportunities for the NPCs to maximally focus fire were constrained. Together with this "waves" approach, I tend (not always, but certainly often) to use more enemies of party level or lower rather than fewer enemies of higher than party level (the yochlol being one exception to this, obviously). The idea of limited power regaining is in DMG2, I think. I made the decision to offer the opportunity on the spot, because I thought it would introduce a bit of extra tension into the decision-making - preparing for the dragon while letting he chimera take free swings. And to that exent it worked. The PCs in my game are: [indent]*dwarf fighter (multi-cleric)/Warpriest - strong, robust, polearm-wielding melee controller, with Athletics + Mighty Sprint is surprisingly mobile; *elf ranger-cleric hybrid/Battlefield Archer - twin strike + some healing; *tiefling CHA-paladin/Questing Knight - as robust as the fighter (lower hp, better defences, including Meliorating Armour), quite good damage output and more than one encounter AoE attack, some healing; *drow chaos sorcerer (multi-monk)/Demonskin Adept - best damage dealer in the party (with a lot of close attacks - he uses the Flurry of Blows to stack on extra damage), some control also (inc from the Flurry of Blows), very mobile and a good selection of immediate actions that make him hard to hit; *human tome wizard (multi-invoker)/Divine Philosopher - some reasonable control (Bigby's Icy Hand, Wall of Fire, Thunderwave, Twist of Space), the lowest damage dealer in the party.[/indent] I try to spread the damage around, but they players are pretty good at focussing it on the two defenders. And the fighter, in particular, is very resilient: 126 hp, 14 surges, with a surge vaue of 34 (17 Con, Toughness, Dwarven Durabililty). And with multiple close bursts (encounter and daily), combat superiority, a lot of forced movement and knocking prone, etc, it is very hard for anyone to get away from him. In the encounter sequence described above, the ranger was dropped to 13 hp and no surges by the fire dragon (Calastryx, from MV:TttNV), and then survived through the mooncalves, and the two encounters that followed that. The party did a fairly good job of protecting him, although at one point he did drop unconscious (but was revived with a surgeless healing potion from Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium). As I said, I'm not the most vicious GM in the world, but I'm not a walkover either. The players play reasonably well. My players don't talk about encounters and dailies in character. They talk about attacking foes, stopping them, locking them down etc. They play with a fairly high degree of tactical coordination, although the paladin and wizard in particular are known for going solo a bit. But the others - especially the player of the sorcerer - are very good at following along and capitalising on openings. In character friction tends to come out more in Marvel superhero team style - wisecracks at one another's expense, for example, or ragging on a particular tactical choice, rather than actively subverting one another's efforts. [/QUOTE]
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