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<blockquote data-quote="Man in the Funny Hat" data-source="post: 3750684" data-attributes="member: 32740">I personally wouldn't put it quite that way.&nbsp; It may have lived longer than it could/should have.&nbsp; By which I mean it might have been better to do with 3E what they are now doing with 4E.&nbsp; Problem was that at the time they were producing a new edition to save the game from retail oblivion.&nbsp; To have eliminated the Vancian backbone of the magic system might well have been too much for players of the time to accept.&nbsp; It would have had its champions but might have been a deal-breaker as well and 3E HAD to succeed solidly.The intervening years and the other improvements brought by 3E really were not kind to the Vancian system.&nbsp; I think a Vancian system is fine, even superior for a SIMPLE game system, but as D&amp;D became ever more complex those Vancian limitations became crippling.So, I wouldn't say IT needed to die as the system could have been designed to work BETTER with it, not fight against it.&nbsp; Nor would I say that it needed to do so a LONG time ago, as I think it has been perceived rightfully as being just a little too integral to &quot;what D&amp;D is&quot;.&nbsp; But, I like the potential that opens up by reducing its domination rather prominently, and I think that works better NOW than it did previously.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Man in the Funny Hat, post: 3750684, member: 32740"] I personally wouldn't put it quite that way. It may have lived longer than it could/should have. By which I mean it might have been better to do with 3E what they are now doing with 4E. Problem was that at the time they were producing a new edition to save the game from retail oblivion. To have eliminated the Vancian backbone of the magic system might well have been too much for players of the time to accept. It would have had its champions but might have been a deal-breaker as well and 3E HAD to succeed solidly. The intervening years and the other improvements brought by 3E really were not kind to the Vancian system. I think a Vancian system is fine, even superior for a SIMPLE game system, but as D&D became ever more complex those Vancian limitations became crippling. So, I wouldn't say IT needed to die as the system could have been designed to work BETTER with it, not fight against it. Nor would I say that it needed to do so a LONG time ago, as I think it has been perceived rightfully as being just a little too integral to "what D&D is". But, I like the potential that opens up by reducing its domination rather prominently, and I think that works better NOW than it did previously. [/QUOTE]

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