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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8031614" data-attributes="member: 6987520">So, no, it doesn't make sense. Because they've done it, used it, failed, and succeeded at it. It is called experience and that is what proficiency bonus is all about. They invested time and risked their lives in adventures, that should make them better.For the record, I never said it was "wrong" so please stop trying to put words in my mouth. Obviously, I don't like it. So when it makes the game cumbersome, slow, and boring? Yeah, that is not a "feature" I want, thank you very much. If you want it, keep it. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Wow, that is a lot of really dexy sorcerers and druids then. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />And again, they have invested in it via the times they've been tested against it. It comes back to experience, i.e. level, and the proficiency bonus that comes from that. A fighter with STR/CON save proficiency will never improve in DEX saves despite hundreds of encounters during his adventuring career? In other words, you're claiming if he doesn't "invest" in it, he's learned nothing from it. Why bother with experience or leveling at all then?Good for you! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />So, cool, your characters learn nothing unless they are proficient in it? If that makes sense to you (as it seems to) then enjoy it. You're basically arguing "Hmm... I keep getting fried by those fireballs. I guess I should ask the rogue for some pointers." and the fighter talks to the rogue, yadda yadda yadda, and either improves his DEX or maybe picks up the Resilient feat. I guess otherwise your fighter just never figured it out after the 20th fireball and still gets nailed. Unless he's invested in it, he didn't learn a darn thing... Yep, that is SAD!!!Also, I'm not talking about a LICH casting lightning bolt vs. an apprentice, BTW. You keep bringing more powerful monsters into the mix... I said the same DC 12 save, say DEX for a Create Bonfire spell.If you think your 20th level fighter (rogue, or whatever) should be just as likely to fail that same save DC as he did at 1st level (which you seem to be okay with), then there's really no point in continuing the conversation.EDIT: Besides which, this is getting well into threadjacking territory-- so, I've made my point and I'm letting it go.</blockquote>

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