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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 8038658" data-attributes="member: 53980">I see what you're trying to say, but that's a strawman argument and isn't really applicable here.Full casters gain access to 5th level spells at 9th level, whereas half casters have to wait til 17th. Obviously, full casters are more impacted than half casters by such a change, insofar as that goes.If you take average HP, a fighter gains 1 more per level than a bard, cleric, or warlock. Even the widest disparity, that between the barbarian and a sorcerer or wizard, is only 3 hp per level. Constitution is valuable to all classes, so there's no guarantee that the martial will have a better score than a caster.At 1 hp per level, it will take a long time for the fighter to reach a point where he can definitely survive the fall, and even when he does the warlock is not far behind. The warlock isn't guaranteed to survive the fall, but odds are that his 101 hp will keep him safe.Moreover, at many tables HP are still rolled. Meaning that with luck, a wizard can have more HP than a barbarian.No feature functions in such an arbitrary manner. Actual features are things you have or don't, like rage or uncanny dodge or having three 1st level spell slots.This would be like a fighter rolling a 1d6 at 5th level. On a 1 he doesn't gain extra attack, on a 2-5 he gains extra attack, and on a 6 he gains extra attack 2.HP are often rolled, and therefore subject to the vagaries of chance, unlike features. Hence, I disagree that they are even a feature to begin with.It's not the DM's intent that is the issue. It is the player's. IMO, metagaming is not something to be encouraged.Yeah, having your barbarian face plant and take a ton of damage is way cooler than them striking the ground as they land, cracking the ground around them, and standing up without a scratch.I'm frankly surprised that you're disagreeing with me so vehemently on this point. You seem like you are arguing for martials to have nice things. I'm saying that if you want them to have nice things then give them nice things rather than utilizing half measures.HP soaking jumping off a cliff is a half measure (even if you make hp a force field or equivalent). The character lands prone and takes a ton of damage. That's not cool.If you want martials to be able to jump off of cliffs, actually give them the capability to do so rather than forcing them to land on their faces. You don't have to use an ancient master or magic item either. Just say that all martials get this as a new class feature.As for why it works when you jump but not when you trip, it involves the character making a focused strike at the ground as they land, directing all of their energy into the ground (in flagrant disregard to the laws of physics). Because it requires a focused strike on impact, you can't do it while tumbling through the air (falling).As I explained above, hit points are not a special feature. What kind of special feature gives the barbarian's feature to the wizard if the barbarian consistently rolls low on level up and the wizard consistently rolls high?Also, it sounds like you're suggesting HP as a force field equivalent, which I've already stated isn't my cup of tea but does make jumping off a cliff plausible. If you want to go with HP making you nigh indestructible, don't let me stop you.As I've stated numerous times, I'm approaching this based on the idea that HP primarily represent skill and luck. Meaning that high HP doesn't give you unbreakable bones or a force field or whatever."Flying" by catapult was not the question. In other words, you wouldn't just let them spend HP to fly or teleport. You might allow movement if there is sufficient narrative justification for it (the aforementioned catapult), but they can't just spend HP and fly into the air.IMO, the dumb thing is almost inevitably just an excuse to metagame. People don't jump off of high cliffs, without safety gear, expecting to survive.1. Some awareness is reasonable yes. The PC knowing their HP total is not reasonable.2. No, I do not think that this is reasonable at all. The rules are a gamist abstraction, not the physics of the game. Even if they were, to figure out the 20d6 cap would require a ludicrous amount of experimentation. 20d6 can deal 20 to 120 damage. Just because the dice rolled low and you survived this time is no guarantee of next time.How does that "dumb" barbarian even figure all this out? Is he only dumb when it's a convenient excuse to metagame, and Isaac Newton the rest of the time?3. It doesn't matter that there's no advantage gained. Metagaming is harmful even when there is no advantage. If a character dives headfirst off a 19 ft roof repeatedly for no reason (because it's only 1d6 damage and they have plenty of HP to spare) that harms everyone's experience at the table, despite not giving that player any advantage.It's essentially in-person trolling. I've had a few players like this at my tables over the years and they never last long. One's fun should not come at the expense of others.IIRC, the player grabbed two d20s (assuming they would roll with advantage). If I were that player, I would have asked, "Do I get advantage because he's asleep?"</blockquote>

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