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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9337322" data-attributes="member: 6790260">With respect, doesn't that kind of weaken how much you can speak on the subject? "I don't know much of anything about your preferences, but I can say I don't think your preferences deserve representation" is not exactly a compelling argument.Zero. Zero magic is the only acceptable quantity of magic for playing a Warlord. That's the whole point.The Battle Master Fighter is not a Warlord. It is a Fighter, that happens to have some utility to give to others.For Warlord fans, this is literally identical to saying, "I don't think 'Wizard' is a class. I think it's a character concept. One that can be put together using Bard, Eldritch Knight, or Arcane Trickster."How do you think Wizard fans would feel, being told that they could just go play Bard. Bard is right there! It has subclasses ALL ABOUT knowledge and learning stuff. What more could they ask for? But you know what they would ask for. They'd ask for the unique spells that make Wizards different. They'd ask for spellcasting with Intelligence rather than Charisma. They'd ask for research (even though the exisiting 5e Wizard literally doesn't do research...at all.) They'd ask for spell schools as subclasses. Etc.No Warlord should ever need spellcasting. I am perfectly happy with a Warlord class that offers the option of being a Knight-Enchanter who melds a bit of magic into her strategic brilliance. I, along with the vast majority of Warlord fans, will never accept a Warlord that requires magic to do their job.The existing Warlord options are to an actual Warlord the way Lore Bards and Eldritch Knights are to actual Wizards: totally inadequate, and often overtly counter to what a Warlord is, conceptually.Precisely.The problem is not, and never has been, "nobody can agree on what the X should be." The problem is, and always has been, that WotC's "we will only approve concepts which clear an arbitrary hurdle that massively favors a minority of disaffected playtest responders" policy prevents any meaningful progress. That policy was never particularly great to begin with; remember that it took nearly two full years just to nail down the Fighter, with Cleric and Rogue being in a similar boat. They tried version after version after version and nothing stuck. Eventually they had to stick with their guns and refine a concept so that it would earn that popularity rating.Because that's actually what has to happen. The designer must at some point put their foot down and declare what a thing is. It is good, very good even, for designers to genuinely listen to the feedback from their users and work to implement it. And if, in a well-designed survey, they find that a particular approach really isn't getting better after a refinement pass or two, then yes, it may be good to return to the drawing board. But instantly abandoning an idea simply because it doesn't immediately get 70% approval is the single leading cause of both the incredible amount of wasted time during the "D&D Next" playtest and the dire state several classes (Monk, Warlock, Sorcerer) and subclasses (Berserker, Champion, Beast Master) were in at launch.The Psion is in exactly the same boat, except there WotC is one of the people putting out an option. Nothing ever will capture 70%+ of the psionics fandom. Nothing can, because everyone is always incentivized to advocate for their view of psionics over everyone else's. They lose nothing they don't already have (which is nothing), but they get the theoretical potential of seeing their perfect idealized vision brought to life. WotC has to sit down at some point and tell us what the 5e Psion is. Only after that does it become possible for that option to reach the arbitrary approval clearance.So it goes with the Warlord. Fans agree on quite a lot, actually! But they have no reason not to advocate for their specific interests, because there's no reason not to. WotC isn't going to make an actual, honest-to-God, full-throated 5e Warlord ever, so Warlord fans have absolutely no reason to try to unite on what the class really is.It's the only way to break out of this cycle of the perfect being the enemy of the good. Sometimes, letting things be driven purely by audience interest is a great plan that genuinely leads to huge benefits. And sometimes, audiences are foolish and contradictory and fractious and squabbling, and they can only settle down and actually give good feedback when you push them to do so. This is an unfortunate fact of life.</blockquote>

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