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*Dungeons & Dragons
Why is There No Warlord Equivalent in 5E?
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9341141" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>My point is, you are drawing a distinction that only applies on Earth, but forcing it to be applied to things that definitionally aren't from Earth. It's more or less a form of equivocation fallacy; simultaneously using both Earth-standards and fantasy-world-standards, but inconsistently, sometimes hewing to the one, sometimes hewing to the other, with little rhyme or reason.</p><p></p><p></p><p>But that means that everything player characters do is "magic." Because they do things <em>all the time</em> that are physically impossible IRL. For God's sake, just the <em>jumping</em> rules are utterly unrealistic for real world phenomena. (Seriously, the <em>world record</em> long jump is just shy of 30 feet/9 meters. D&D characters with just halfway-decent Str can jump half that with no training or practice whatsoever <em>while carrying loads over 40kg</em>.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>I assert that simple movement (running ~5 m/s <em>at all times</em> while carrying 45 kg, jumping ~5 m horizontally or ~1 m vertically under the same weight), surviving a point-blank <em>fireball</em> or other similar damage, shrugging off falling damage (the median lethal fall distance is under 15 meters, a d8 hit die character with +0 Con survives the <em>maximum possible</em> damage of such a fall at level 6), and various other things are already beyond the realm of ordinary human capability.</p><p></p><p>D&D isn't Earth-realistic even when we <em>aren't</em> looking at outright magic. It never has been. Many people would like it to be; many have pretended that it is, or re-interpreted it to be so, or presumed it is so without actually checking the numbers. It has at best only the <em>loosest</em> association with physically achievable feats on Earth--except, perhaps, for ordinary NPC humanoids, who hew rather closer to what an actual, ordinary human could achieve.</p><p></p><p>Even in the early editions, much of this was true. Yes, at first or second level, maybe even third if you rolled crappy scores, you might die to an errant breeze or an unhappy housecat. But once you'd gotten a couple more levels under your belt, many of the kinds of things that could kill an ordinary human outright simply can't do that to you anymore. They'll <em>hurt</em> like a son of a gun, but they won't even incapacitate, let alone kill, even before we factor in that later editions have been rather softer than (the reputation of) old-school D&D. (Whether that reputation <em>actually bore out in practice</em> is a separate matter.)</p><p></p><p>If D&D people are that resilient so quickly, what <em>isn't</em> "magic"?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9341141, member: 6790260"] My point is, you are drawing a distinction that only applies on Earth, but forcing it to be applied to things that definitionally aren't from Earth. It's more or less a form of equivocation fallacy; simultaneously using both Earth-standards and fantasy-world-standards, but inconsistently, sometimes hewing to the one, sometimes hewing to the other, with little rhyme or reason. But that means that everything player characters do is "magic." Because they do things [I]all the time[/I] that are physically impossible IRL. For God's sake, just the [I]jumping[/I] rules are utterly unrealistic for real world phenomena. (Seriously, the [I]world record[/I] long jump is just shy of 30 feet/9 meters. D&D characters with just halfway-decent Str can jump half that with no training or practice whatsoever [I]while carrying loads over 40kg[/I].) I assert that simple movement (running ~5 m/s [I]at all times[/I] while carrying 45 kg, jumping ~5 m horizontally or ~1 m vertically under the same weight), surviving a point-blank [I]fireball[/I] or other similar damage, shrugging off falling damage (the median lethal fall distance is under 15 meters, a d8 hit die character with +0 Con survives the [I]maximum possible[/I] damage of such a fall at level 6), and various other things are already beyond the realm of ordinary human capability. D&D isn't Earth-realistic even when we [I]aren't[/I] looking at outright magic. It never has been. Many people would like it to be; many have pretended that it is, or re-interpreted it to be so, or presumed it is so without actually checking the numbers. It has at best only the [I]loosest[/I] association with physically achievable feats on Earth--except, perhaps, for ordinary NPC humanoids, who hew rather closer to what an actual, ordinary human could achieve. Even in the early editions, much of this was true. Yes, at first or second level, maybe even third if you rolled crappy scores, you might die to an errant breeze or an unhappy housecat. But once you'd gotten a couple more levels under your belt, many of the kinds of things that could kill an ordinary human outright simply can't do that to you anymore. They'll [I]hurt[/I] like a son of a gun, but they won't even incapacitate, let alone kill, even before we factor in that later editions have been rather softer than (the reputation of) old-school D&D. (Whether that reputation [I]actually bore out in practice[/I] is a separate matter.) If D&D people are that resilient so quickly, what [I]isn't[/I] "magic"? [/QUOTE]
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