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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Why is There No Warlord Equivalent in 5E?
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9342058" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>I have. It hasn't helped. If anything, it's made things worse.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay. That's not too hard to achieve. In fact, there are a lot of ways that can be done.</p><p></p><p></p><p>How? What? <em>Why?</em></p><p></p><p>I'm sorry, but I just...I can't take this assertion seriously. You're literally saying that magic, which can do <em>literally anything</em> in D&D, is somehow too limited to be distinctive if...people are able to do the things actual, living, breathing humans today can do on Earth? I cannot fathom how you would believe that.</p><p></p><p>There's <em>plenty</em> of things to distinguish magic from non-magic. Elemental effects, particularly the most purely magical ones like necrotic, radiant, force, etc. Using different processes, where some mechanics (e.g. certain ways of determining results, or contesting actions, or manifesting effects, etc., etc.) <em>only</em> show up as magic and others <em>only</em> show up as non-magic. For example, I don't believe there are any spells in 5e that grant Expertise in a skill. That's great--make sure <em>no spell ever does</em>. That makes Expertise an inherently mundane effect, even when learned as a Bard or via feats. Likewise, maybe elemental resistances are necessarily magical, so they necessarily shut off while in an AMF. I am, of course, spitballing; one would want to make a variety of effects, approaches, and mechanics that only appear on one side or the other, in addition to the various ones that appear on both (like attack rolls and saving throws.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think this achieved what you hoped it would achieve. At absolute best, you have simply confused me further.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Nope. I absolutely will not accept this. Period, full stop. There should be non-easy-mode non-magic, and easy mode magic. This is a perfectly achievable thing.</p><p></p><p>And if the one and only meaningful difference between them is that one is brainlessly "easy" and the other "advanced", I fail to see how that, in ANY way, achieves the claimed desire of massively different entities. Difficulty is in the eye of the beholder--so your standard would be <em>by definition</em> a failure for anyone who finds magic easy to work with or who doesn't grok martial stuff, whether or not their appraisal of the other side is fitting. Actually using different methods, offering different effects, and featuring different mechanics is objective. If radiant damage is always magical, then there's no possible disagreement about whether a thing that does radiant damage is magic. It's just an objective fact.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 9342058, member: 6790260"] I have. It hasn't helped. If anything, it's made things worse. Okay. That's not too hard to achieve. In fact, there are a lot of ways that can be done. How? What? [I]Why?[/I] I'm sorry, but I just...I can't take this assertion seriously. You're literally saying that magic, which can do [I]literally anything[/I] in D&D, is somehow too limited to be distinctive if...people are able to do the things actual, living, breathing humans today can do on Earth? I cannot fathom how you would believe that. There's [I]plenty[/I] of things to distinguish magic from non-magic. Elemental effects, particularly the most purely magical ones like necrotic, radiant, force, etc. Using different processes, where some mechanics (e.g. certain ways of determining results, or contesting actions, or manifesting effects, etc., etc.) [I]only[/I] show up as magic and others [I]only[/I] show up as non-magic. For example, I don't believe there are any spells in 5e that grant Expertise in a skill. That's great--make sure [I]no spell ever does[/I]. That makes Expertise an inherently mundane effect, even when learned as a Bard or via feats. Likewise, maybe elemental resistances are necessarily magical, so they necessarily shut off while in an AMF. I am, of course, spitballing; one would want to make a variety of effects, approaches, and mechanics that only appear on one side or the other, in addition to the various ones that appear on both (like attack rolls and saving throws.) I don't think this achieved what you hoped it would achieve. At absolute best, you have simply confused me further. Nope. I absolutely will not accept this. Period, full stop. There should be non-easy-mode non-magic, and easy mode magic. This is a perfectly achievable thing. And if the one and only meaningful difference between them is that one is brainlessly "easy" and the other "advanced", I fail to see how that, in ANY way, achieves the claimed desire of massively different entities. Difficulty is in the eye of the beholder--so your standard would be [I]by definition[/I] a failure for anyone who finds magic easy to work with or who doesn't grok martial stuff, whether or not their appraisal of the other side is fitting. Actually using different methods, offering different effects, and featuring different mechanics is objective. If radiant damage is always magical, then there's no possible disagreement about whether a thing that does radiant damage is magic. It's just an objective fact. [/QUOTE]
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