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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lord Zardoz" data-source="post: 5118542" data-attributes="member: 704">I concur with Paul Klein and brainstorm.  There are already enough threads on this topic.  But this is at least a different sort of question.  So I will try to address that question.There are a few reasons that come to mind.1)  It is not the sort of problem that can be fixed by a simple mechanical tweak.  2)  Grind is a hugely subjective term.Grind is not a simple problem like a badly worded power that makes it too effective and can be fixed by 2 or 3 lines of errata.  I created a thread to see what people think causes grind, and what constituites a grind.  The most frequently recurring cause seems to be due to overly durable monsters being used in combat that are unable to inflict sufficient damage to kill the players in a timely fashion.My thread:<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/273193-what-constitutes-grind-what-causes.html" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/273193-what-constitutes-grind-what-causes.html</a>[sblock]Some DM's really enjoy running fights built around small numbers of very powerful opponents, and the monster of choice is typically going to be Elites or Solos for these encounters.  Elites and Solos did not exist as formally in 3e as they do in 4e.  They have slightly tougher AC / Def scores, and about 2 to 4 times as much HP.  This works fine if the Solo or Elite is close to the players level.  But if you put PC's of level X against Elites and Solo's of level X+4 or higher, you are significantly magnifying the HP and AC relative to what the players should handle.  The Higher AC will mean that the encounter and daily powers are more likley to miss.  Having few monsters means that the combat rounds will pass very quickly, so after a very short amount of 'real time', your players will have used up the encounter and daily powers, and be reduced to at will attacks.The reason this is a grind and not just an unfair fight is that the monsters, while having plenty of hp and a very good AC, the damage output is still going to be limited to a single attack per round.  The attack will hurt, but since PC's are very durable, and the monsters wont have many attacks in a round, the players will not be at any great risk of dying during the fight.[/sblock]  Now, the Durable Monster problem is especially bad with Soldiers.  But grind can also happen if you use Lurkers of level X+4.  Or if you use enough Controllers with powers like Daze to consistently daze many of your players (Or stun, or immobilize, etc).  The problem can also be magnified by players using very poor tactics.  Or a grind can happen if the combat area is too open and the monsters are way to scattered.  Or if the DM is just using way too many monsters.  Or if the players happen to have some crap luck with their dice.Any problem that crops up in game that is hugely dependant on the way the DM chooses to run his game is not really a problem that WotC can issue an errata based fix for.  Any of the fixes that does get widly circulated is usually highly situational.  What works reliably for your game wont necessarily work for my game.  2 Hit Minions?  That basically screws strikers and negates gains to player damage.  A flat reduction in AC?  That may work for the X+4 Soldier, but what about the DM who only uses that monster when it is at level X?  Suddenly the monster is too damn easy to hit.The only suggestions I can think of is to first, just use the rules in Chapter 10 of the DMG to scale those elites back down to your players level.  It is functionally the same as reducing the HP and AC anyway.  Beyond that, just apply whatever fix or house rule you like to your game and call it a day.  That sort of fix has been used for every edition for D&D for every other shortcoming that has been preceived, and the results have usually been pretty good.END COMMUNICATION</blockquote>

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