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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8653153" data-attributes="member: 6696971">So my problem with this view is the following:* It seems to assume I'm special (I'm not) OR it assumes that I cared more about climbing 2.75 years ago than TTRPG players who have invested a comparatively (when compared to that novice who walked into that climbing gym 2.75 years ago) enormous swathe of time, social capital, actual $ capital, mental/emotional energy.* It seems to assume a humility on my part when entering into a new domain that others either (a) don't/can't possess or (b) shouldn't be held accountable to aspire to.  I think your "puts students on the defensive" above, speaks to your orientation to this.* It also seems to assume that TTRPG players are uniquely not particularly curious or caring about their leisure activity (I do mean "their" here, given how much your average gamer puts into it...ownership...even casuals devote hours of various forms of capital just to play at all) relative to other folks and their leisure activities.  I don't think that bears out broadly and I definitely don't think it bears out for a community like ENWorld where people absolutely are invested at least in relative proportion to "ham and egger" climbers like me (I'm not very good and I never will be...I'm dead average and I'm likely never to improve much upon that...despite that, I still aspire to be better).* It also seems to assume that people can't curate their own behavior and be accountable for it (engage with jargon in an area that seems interesting to them, disengage with jargon when their interest is lost, ignore jargon outright when its not found to be interesting/productive, engage faithfully with curiosity and humility about concepts new to them vs the opposite).  Granted, that is a massive problem in the social media world where platforms and algorithms plug into people's "worse nature" by design to create just awful human behavior (personally and collectively).  But ENWorld is not Twitter, Facebook, Youtube (etc).So I don't exactly know which of these above assumptions are in play here (you'd have to settle that...I'm just drawing inferrences based on your recent commentary on this and our prior engagements on the subject).I also don't the matrix of assumptions (because I don't know the individual ones) that you have in mind.But regardless, I don't agree with any of them.  I don't agree that they're correct and I certainly don't agree that they're something to relent to (rather than aspire to overcome) if they were true.  For example, that "student reflexively on the defensive (rather than humble with aspirations toward being better)" who takes on climbing or BJJ?  They fail out.  Hard.  And it costs them a hell of a lot (including the loving embrace of a humble, healthy community of exemplars).</blockquote>

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