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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8653184" data-attributes="member: 6696971">Umbran...I read this and what it says to me is:&quot;Traditional jargon essentially isn't meaningfully 'jargon' because tradition &lt;because ENWorld is overwhelmed culturally by traditionally-inclined users&gt;.&nbsp; Alternative jargon that traditionally-inclined users aren't exposed to is meaningfully 'jargon' because not traditional and I and others haven't uploaded it to the point that it has transcended its 'jargon' status.&quot;Is that what you're meaning to convey?&nbsp; That a subculture's jargon transcends jargon status?&nbsp; If that is what you mean, I don't understand its significance.&nbsp; Because the point of all of this (I thought) is its impact upon prospective participants in a new domain.&nbsp; Because those are the folks we're worried about here....this is the proposed barrier to entry/gatekeeping issue...people exposed to foreign ideas/concept struggle &lt;because jargon that they haven't already uploaded because tradition &gt;?People outside of our hobby and our hobby-adjacent practitioners (eg CRPG players)?&nbsp; They have no idea what we're talking about whether we use traditional jargon or old school jargon or Forge jargon.&nbsp; I've brought so many new people into the hobby and I've tried to have pretty innocuous conversations with them about totally traditional play and concepts.&nbsp; I may as well be Beeker meeping at them.&nbsp; I have as much luck conveying actual meaning around terms like BBEG or Rocket Tog or Nova or Monty Haul or Sandbox or Rocks Fall You Die or Hexcrawl or Wandering Monsters as I do Force.You must mean something else because that makes no sense.Jargon can't transcend jargon status.&nbsp; Its still jargon.&nbsp; Its just that the subculture who has practiced it has sufficiently uploaded it so its just &quot;words&quot; to them.&nbsp; What is important is that to new folks who are engaging with new concepts and perhaps trying to onboard...its still jargon.&nbsp; They still have to go through the process of uploading it.Now...dissident-deemed jargon and &quot;you're a douche for using this jargon&quot; or Wrongspeak are absolutely a thing.&nbsp; I feel like that has proven a historically excellent way for controlling conversation and ensuring hegemony or freedom from the taint of various cultural influence!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8653184, member: 6696971"] Umbran...I read this and what it says to me is: "Traditional jargon essentially isn't meaningfully 'jargon' because tradition <because ENWorld is overwhelmed culturally by traditionally-inclined users>. Alternative jargon that traditionally-inclined users aren't exposed to is meaningfully 'jargon' because not traditional and I and others haven't uploaded it to the point that it has transcended its 'jargon' status." Is that what you're meaning to convey? That a subculture's jargon transcends jargon status? If that is what you mean, I don't understand its significance. Because the point of all of this (I thought) is its impact upon prospective participants in a new domain. Because those are the folks we're worried about here....this is the proposed barrier to entry/gatekeeping issue...people exposed to foreign ideas/concept struggle <because jargon that they haven't already uploaded because tradition >? People outside of our hobby and our hobby-adjacent practitioners (eg CRPG players)? They have no idea what we're talking about whether we use traditional jargon or old school jargon or Forge jargon. I've brought so many new people into the hobby and I've tried to have pretty innocuous conversations with them about totally traditional play and concepts. I may as well be Beeker meeping at them. I have as much luck conveying actual meaning around terms like BBEG or Rocket Tog or Nova or Monty Haul or Sandbox or Rocks Fall You Die or Hexcrawl or Wandering Monsters as I do Force. You must mean something else because that makes no sense. Jargon can't transcend jargon status. Its still jargon. Its just that the subculture who has practiced it has sufficiently uploaded it so its just "words" to them. What is important is that to new folks who are engaging with new concepts and perhaps trying to onboard...its still jargon. They still have to go through the process of uploading it. Now...dissident-deemed jargon and "you're a douche for using this jargon" or Wrongspeak are absolutely a thing. I feel like that has proven a historically excellent way for controlling conversation and ensuring hegemony or freedom from the taint of various cultural influence! [/QUOTE]

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