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<blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8654423" data-attributes="member: 86653">Sorry you had to deal with that. I would submit that the people shouting were not interested in being helpful and that them having some bit of jargon to shout (rather than a slogan) would not have helped matters. And as we're all well aware of at this point, especially on the internet, those that shout tend to drown out those who don't. I do remember having conversations with people about focusing on the character, getting into their character's mindset, and making choices based on what their character would do given the &quot;realities&quot; of the world. Along with various other things like describing what the character is doing in the game, etc. People were around who played in that style and some of us tried to help rather than shout. Not all, obviously.But I think that's all part of these threads on this topic. If, back in the day, someone simply said to you &quot;fiction first,&quot; you'd have no idea what that meant. And if it were delivered in the same shouty and unhelpful manner as &quot;it's called role-play...&quot; then you'd have much the same reaction to &quot;fiction first&quot; as you have to &quot;it's called...,&quot; right? It's only the full concept, carefully explained that is the helping hand in that situation, not the jargon alone, even if calmly and politely repeated ad nauseam. It's not the jargon or the phrase itself that's beneficial. It's the explanation of what it means that's helpful. As exemplified in this tangent on &quot;fiction first&quot;. The concept existed prior to the naming of it, and, more importantly it could be explained prior to the naming of it. It simply lacked a catchy phrase or jargon. Lack of a name or jargon is not a hindrance to understanding.The jargon is only a stand in. Oftentimes it's an obstacle between two people in understanding the concept the jargon is meant to be shorthand for. As we repeatedly see in these threads when two or more proponents of GNS jargon disagree on what the jargon means and what GNS is even fundamentally all about. But, generally, instead of drilling down past the jargon and discussing the ideas and concepts behind it, they often get locked into arguing about what the jargon means. To show my age, here's a quote. &quot;It's like a finger pointing away to the moon...don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="overgeeked, post: 8654423, member: 86653"] Sorry you had to deal with that. I would submit that the people shouting were not interested in being helpful and that them having some bit of jargon to shout (rather than a slogan) would not have helped matters. And as we're all well aware of at this point, especially on the internet, those that shout tend to drown out those who don't. I do remember having conversations with people about focusing on the character, getting into their character's mindset, and making choices based on what their character would do given the "realities" of the world. Along with various other things like describing what the character is doing in the game, etc. People were around who played in that style and some of us tried to help rather than shout. Not all, obviously. But I think that's all part of these threads on this topic. If, back in the day, someone simply said to you "fiction first," you'd have no idea what that meant. And if it were delivered in the same shouty and unhelpful manner as "it's called role-play..." then you'd have much the same reaction to "fiction first" as you have to "it's called...," right? It's only the full concept, carefully explained that is the helping hand in that situation, not the jargon alone, even if calmly and politely repeated ad nauseam. It's not the jargon or the phrase itself that's beneficial. It's the explanation of what it means that's helpful. As exemplified in this tangent on "fiction first". The concept existed prior to the naming of it, and, more importantly it could be explained prior to the naming of it. It simply lacked a catchy phrase or jargon. Lack of a name or jargon is not a hindrance to understanding. The jargon is only a stand in. Oftentimes it's an obstacle between two people in understanding the concept the jargon is meant to be shorthand for. As we repeatedly see in these threads when two or more proponents of GNS jargon disagree on what the jargon means and what GNS is even fundamentally all about. But, generally, instead of drilling down past the jargon and discussing the ideas and concepts behind it, they often get locked into arguing about what the jargon means. To show my age, here's a quote. "It's like a finger pointing away to the moon...don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory." [/QUOTE]

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