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<blockquote data-quote="Crimson Longinus" data-source="post: 8654983" data-attributes="member: 7025508">How do you set the level and complexity of the challenge if you don't even know the stakes? How the players know what to do if they don't know what they try to achieve? This makes it even more mechanics first. You choose the mechanical framework without even having concrete idea what sort of fiction it is to represent. Your examples imply you pretty tightly control what sort of checks the players can attempt and when. I'm not quite sure that's how the rulebook instructs one to do it. But yes, it probably works better that way. However, in your examples we can see that the underlying mechanics inform the fiction, and not the other way around. You know that one check is still needed so you come up with fiction to justify it etc. For my point it doesn't really matter who is doing the extrapolating, albeit in most games it would be the GM. But I was merely articulating what actually putting the fiction first would entail. But yes, I know it is a Forge buzzword, so it doesn't actually mean what it intuitively sounds like.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Crimson Longinus, post: 8654983, member: 7025508"] How do you set the level and complexity of the challenge if you don't even know the stakes? How the players know what to do if they don't know what they try to achieve? This makes it even more mechanics first. You choose the mechanical framework without even having concrete idea what sort of fiction it is to represent. Your examples imply you pretty tightly control what sort of checks the players can attempt and when. I'm not quite sure that's how the rulebook instructs one to do it. But yes, it probably works better that way. However, in your examples we can see that the underlying mechanics inform the fiction, and not the other way around. You know that one check is still needed so you come up with fiction to justify it etc. For my point it doesn't really matter who is doing the extrapolating, albeit in most games it would be the GM. But I was merely articulating what actually putting the fiction first would entail. But yes, I know it is a Forge buzzword, so it doesn't actually mean what it intuitively sounds like. [/QUOTE]

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