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Why Jargon is Bad, and Some Modern Resources for RPG Theory
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<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 8666635" data-attributes="member: 16586"><p>I don't understand why damn near 20 years later we are so caught up on the words of one man who has said lots of things since and designed a lot of games. It's not as if Ron being wrong about thing would make him wrong about everything. That's not the way any of this works.</p><p></p><p>That first sort of incoherence that Ron and most of us at the Forge saw - that of players playing fundamentally different sorts of games - that does not happen at the vast majority of tables. What we missed is that despite rules pulled from wargames the vast majority of games lacked differences of creative agenda because they didn't use the rules in their 500-page books. They used unwritten rules that were socially enforced to keep games centered on story and setting. We kept looking at the rulebooks, instead of the actual play when it came to coherence. To a certain extent people like Vincent Baker absolutely understood that Vampire, Shadowrun, Ars Magica, AD&D Second Edition were all pretty much expensive paper weights outside of the setting material.</p><p></p><p>The actual game structure, reward systems and expectations were all part of a system of elaborate mostly unspoken social norms. This is fundamentally why power gamers and rules lawyers are looked down upon - they're trying to play the game in the book. Not the game we are actually playing.</p><p></p><p>That second sort was pretty widespread and still kind of is, although less and less with games like 5e, Numenera, Edge of the Empire, Conan 2d20, Vampire 5e, L5R 5e. They largely drop a lot of the war gaming stuff they don't care about. They can be played in setting/story exploration mode mostly without ignoring the rules. There's a whole lot less getting in the way of GM curated play. The resource management minigames in 5e are a sort of proud nail that way, but can be finessed much more easily than AD&D.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 8666635, member: 16586"] I don't understand why damn near 20 years later we are so caught up on the words of one man who has said lots of things since and designed a lot of games. It's not as if Ron being wrong about thing would make him wrong about everything. That's not the way any of this works. That first sort of incoherence that Ron and most of us at the Forge saw - that of players playing fundamentally different sorts of games - that does not happen at the vast majority of tables. What we missed is that despite rules pulled from wargames the vast majority of games lacked differences of creative agenda because they didn't use the rules in their 500-page books. They used unwritten rules that were socially enforced to keep games centered on story and setting. We kept looking at the rulebooks, instead of the actual play when it came to coherence. To a certain extent people like Vincent Baker absolutely understood that Vampire, Shadowrun, Ars Magica, AD&D Second Edition were all pretty much expensive paper weights outside of the setting material. The actual game structure, reward systems and expectations were all part of a system of elaborate mostly unspoken social norms. This is fundamentally why power gamers and rules lawyers are looked down upon - they're trying to play the game in the book. Not the game we are actually playing. That second sort was pretty widespread and still kind of is, although less and less with games like 5e, Numenera, Edge of the Empire, Conan 2d20, Vampire 5e, L5R 5e. They largely drop a lot of the war gaming stuff they don't care about. They can be played in setting/story exploration mode mostly without ignoring the rules. There's a whole lot less getting in the way of GM curated play. The resource management minigames in 5e are a sort of proud nail that way, but can be finessed much more easily than AD&D. [/QUOTE]
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