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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 8668929" data-attributes="member: 6785785">Oh, sure. I am not challenging that there are multiple ways to do it. But remember, this part of the conversation came about when someone said (paraphrasing) "mechanics should get out of the way when it comes to social interaction- the game doesn't fall apart when you don't use rules". So some of us pointed out why some folks actually feel the game does fall apart when the rules aren't used, and why we like social mechanics. So here we are. I am not saying that the most popular and what appears to be the default approach of the majority of games is somehow not valid. I'm saying why it isn't the only way to do things. As for PC v PC type of situations, I think it depends. I can understand people being hesitant to yield any control on their PC, especially in a more traditional game where that's often their sole point of input into the game world. But I think that people often behave in unexpected and irrational ways, and I think that often these kinds of things happen as a result of peer or social pressure, or the perception there of. So I don't really mind if there are some mechanics that may allow this. I know some games handle it by first asking "is this something your character could possibly be convinced?" and if the player says yes, then we go to the dice. If the player says no, then that's the answer. I don't find this approach to be jarring to my sense of character or my control of the character. So as you say, there are multiple ways it can be handled, and not all of them need to trample on a player's control of their character. Not so much about winning, but about engaging in the game. If we're playing a game where one of the PCs is Sherlock Holmes, I think it's safe to assume that there's a mystery afoot. So engaging with that mystery is a big part of play. How the character does so is vital. The portrayal of Holmes's other traits... the emotional stuff, the social awkwardness.... they are most important in how they impact his ability to do what he does. Having rules for this...penalties of some kind, or at least deficiencies in stats absolutely can help portray character. Without there being rules, then there's not really a game going on, and what we'd be doing is little more than cosplay.</blockquote>

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