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<blockquote data-quote="Glade Riven" data-source="post: 5201232" data-attributes="member: 86468">It has occured to me that a good chunk of this thread is somewhat ridiculess..&nbsp;Two main complaints about 3e combat was 1. it was usually over in 3 rounds and 2. it took forever for people to take their turn.&nbsp;4e addresses #1 with the encounter design, leading to longer, tactical encounters where you can do cool stuff. 4e attempts to address #2 by giving people a handful of powers to choose from rather than a long list for casters and fighters just throwing out attack rolls.&nbsp;4e's attempt to address #2 fails when you have players that are indecisive, overly tactical, and don't really pay attention to what is going on until it is their turn. The result is you have people taking 5 minutes to take their turn. That's a people issue. There's a guy in my group who takes forever on turns because of that, even when it is a character who is a smashy smash fighter in 3e.&nbsp;So, how to solve it? Talk to the person. Put a timer on turns so that they don't sit there for 5 min contemplating strategy. Virtual time in the game has 10 turns per minute (depending on system), so if their indecisive, their character is indecisive, so they essentually lose their turn. Or you can put up with it.&nbsp;WotC makes big epic battle-crawls because 4e sales figures tell them thats what people want, so it is a cheap shot at them to complain about them doing what makes them money. The product works out of the box, although it may not work the way you want it to.&nbsp;So the DM has to make adjustments. Add or remove minions. Adjust HP or AC. Tweak the situation. Good role-playing removes the need for most skill challenges, unless you're dealing with a funky trap design. This sort of thing has to be done for every system or edition of role playing. It's not a videogame, for crying out loud - don't treat it like one. Part of Rule 0 is that it is impossible for the DM to break the rules, and rule 0 is always in effect.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Glade Riven, post: 5201232, member: 86468"] It has occured to me that a good chunk of this thread is somewhat ridiculess.. Two main complaints about 3e combat was 1. it was usually over in 3 rounds and 2. it took forever for people to take their turn. 4e addresses #1 with the encounter design, leading to longer, tactical encounters where you can do cool stuff. 4e attempts to address #2 by giving people a handful of powers to choose from rather than a long list for casters and fighters just throwing out attack rolls. 4e's attempt to address #2 fails when you have players that are indecisive, overly tactical, and don't really pay attention to what is going on until it is their turn. The result is you have people taking 5 minutes to take their turn. That's a people issue. There's a guy in my group who takes forever on turns because of that, even when it is a character who is a smashy smash fighter in 3e. So, how to solve it? Talk to the person. Put a timer on turns so that they don't sit there for 5 min contemplating strategy. Virtual time in the game has 10 turns per minute (depending on system), so if their indecisive, their character is indecisive, so they essentually lose their turn. Or you can put up with it. WotC makes big epic battle-crawls because 4e sales figures tell them thats what people want, so it is a cheap shot at them to complain about them doing what makes them money. The product works out of the box, although it may not work the way you want it to. So the DM has to make adjustments. Add or remove minions. Adjust HP or AC. Tweak the situation. Good role-playing removes the need for most skill challenges, unless you're dealing with a funky trap design. This sort of thing has to be done for every system or edition of role playing. It's not a videogame, for crying out loud - don't treat it like one. Part of Rule 0 is that it is impossible for the DM to break the rules, and rule 0 is always in effect. [/QUOTE]

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