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<blockquote data-quote="Shazman" data-source="post: 5201282" data-attributes="member: 13509">[ 4e's attempt to address #2 fails when you have players that are indecisive, overly tactical, and don't really pay attention to what is going on until it is their turn. The result is you have people taking 5 minutes to take their turn. That's a people issue. There's a guy in my group who takes forever on turns because of that, even when it is a character who is a smashy smash fighter in 3e.&nbsp;I beg to differ.&nbsp; 4E's attempt to address #2 just flat out fails.&nbsp; Unless you take extraoridnary measures to stop it, 4E is combat is going to take a long time barring some inordiantely good luck on the part of the PC's.&nbsp; Indecisive players can add to combat length (I personally know someone that is very bad for this) but that really doesn't have as much to do with the system as the person.&nbsp; You can't blame long 4E combats on slow players, because they will most likely be slow regardless of the system.&nbsp; The problem is that 4E combat takes a long time by default with or without indecisive players.&nbsp; The indecisive players just make it take longer.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Shazman, post: 5201282, member: 13509"] [ 4e's attempt to address #2 fails when you have players that are indecisive, overly tactical, and don't really pay attention to what is going on until it is their turn. The result is you have people taking 5 minutes to take their turn. That's a people issue. There's a guy in my group who takes forever on turns because of that, even when it is a character who is a smashy smash fighter in 3e. I beg to differ. 4E's attempt to address #2 just flat out fails. Unless you take extraoridnary measures to stop it, 4E is combat is going to take a long time barring some inordiantely good luck on the part of the PC's. Indecisive players can add to combat length (I personally know someone that is very bad for this) but that really doesn't have as much to do with the system as the person. You can't blame long 4E combats on slow players, because they will most likely be slow regardless of the system. The problem is that 4E combat takes a long time by default with or without indecisive players. The indecisive players just make it take longer. [/QUOTE]

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