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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 5202304" data-attributes="member: 177">With respect, it seems to me that you might be confusing, &quot;RPGs need...&quot; with, &quot;I prefer RPGs have...&quot;.RPGs are an outgrowth of wargames.&nbsp; There's loads and loads of folks who seem to like the tactical wargame aspect - killing things and taking their stuff.&nbsp; There's any number of folks out there who are &quot;beer and pretzel&quot; gamers - immersion and verisimilitude are not necessarily high on their agendas.&nbsp; The point is that there's loads of different things that people can get out of RPGs.&nbsp; Immersion is one.&nbsp; A good time playing a tactical wargame with some story and role-playing to give the whole thing some context is another.&nbsp; What your game has in it will depend on exactly which gamers you're trying to get to play the game.Tactical richness requires more than just &quot;meaningful&quot; choices, the player also has to have to have a bunch of different options at hand.&nbsp; Weighing choices and making decisions can take time, as you review options.&nbsp; If you're trying to get the players who like tactically rich combat, you have to be ready for that combat to not be particularly quick.D&amp;D has always tried to draw players who like the tactical side of combat, and D&amp;D combat has historically never been particularly quick, in large part for that reason.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 5202304, member: 177"] With respect, it seems to me that you might be confusing, "RPGs need..." with, "I prefer RPGs have...". RPGs are an outgrowth of [i]wargames[/i]. There's loads and loads of folks who seem to like the tactical wargame aspect - killing things and taking their stuff. There's any number of folks out there who are "beer and pretzel" gamers - immersion and verisimilitude are not necessarily high on their agendas. The point is that there's loads of different things that people can get out of RPGs. Immersion is one. A good time playing a tactical wargame with some story and role-playing to give the whole thing some context is another. What your game has in it will depend on exactly which gamers you're trying to get to play the game. Tactical richness requires more than just "meaningful" choices, the player also has to have to have a bunch of different options at hand. Weighing choices and making decisions can take time, as you review options. If you're trying to get the players who like tactically rich combat, you have to be ready for that combat to not be particularly quick. D&D has always tried to draw players who like the tactical side of combat, and D&D combat has historically never been particularly quick, in large part for that reason. [/QUOTE]

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