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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5211402" data-attributes="member: 18280">What I've seen are assertations that, if positioning is important, and if it is difficult to pinpoint positioning without a grid, the degree to which positioning is important is going to have a direct affect on how difficult it is to play without a grid.If positioning is important:*  The greater the number of game effects that exist that rely on positioning, the more important positioning will be.  *  The more precisely game effects rely on positioning, the more important positioning will be.*  Some have claimined that positioning is necessary for tactical play; this has been refuted (to what degree of success it has been refuted, I leave up to you).If it is difficult to pinpoint positioning without a grid:*  The more pieces in play, the more difficult it is to know where those pieces are.  *  The more precisely you need to know the location of pieces, the more difficult it is to know where those pieces are.The general idea is that it is harder to play without using a grid when a game uses a great number of effects that rely on precise positioning, while using a large number of pieces whose precise position must be known to adjudicate those effects, than it is to do so with a system that does not rely on precise postioning, or that rarely does so.And "harder" is like "taller" -- it doesn't tell you how difficult (or big) something is, except in comparison to something else.  You might not think that 3 feet is tall, but 3 feet is tall in a room full of 2-foot-tall people.Likewise, the only people I am aware of who are making the specific claim that 4e is hard to play without the grid are Scott Rouse (whose statement seems to indicate that this was by design, and who only said it would be hard for him), and other people in linked threads who apparently like 4e, but are having difficulty in using the game without a grid.Everyone else, AFAICT, is talking about relative difficulty.And, if you disagree that that it is harder to play without using a grid when a game uses a great number of effects that rely on precise positioning, while using a large number of pieces whose precise position must be known to adjudicate those effects, than it is to do so with a system that does not rely on precise postioning, or that rarely does so, then I honestly don't think that anyone or anything is likely to change your opinion.RC</blockquote>

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