Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5211478" data-attributes="member: 18280">&quot;Precision of Position&quot; and &quot;Gridless&quot;, sure.&nbsp; &quot;Precision&quot; and &quot;Precision of Position&quot; are not the same thing, though.&nbsp; And, also, &quot;at some point&quot;, not at all points.In a game system where position can be handled &quot;generally&quot; without any loss of detail, for instance Codex Martialis, one can play without a grid with no loss of precision.&nbsp; Moreover, adding a grid is of no special value AFAICT.Likewise, in 1e, a thief's backstab requires only &quot;general&quot; knowledge of where figures are located.&nbsp; In 1e, were you to use a grid, the grid could be 10-foot squares, or even 20-foot squares, with no effective loss of information or complexity 90 times out of 100.So, yes, handwaving position in 4e is akin to handwaving position in 1e, but the amount of information that is being handwaved -- and the number of PC decisions that are based upon understanding the imagined space to a relatively precise degree -- is much higher.Not outside the realm of human ability, by any means, but much higher....and consequently harder.So:(1)&nbsp; In some cases, foregoing the grid does not mean losing any precision in the game system.(2)&nbsp; In other cases, foregoing the grid means losing minimal precision in the game system.However,(3)&nbsp; In the case of 4e, foregoing the grid means losing a large amount of precision in the game system, and large amounts of precision upon which tactical play/important PC decisions are predicated.It should be obvious that foregoing the grid in the case of (1) or (2) is easier than in the case of (3).IOW, IF (and only if) precise positioning is no more important in 4e than in previous editions, THEN it will be as easy to handwave precise positioning when going gridless.&nbsp; IF (and only if) precise positioning is more important in 4e than in previous editions, THEN it will be harder to handwave precise positioning when going gridless.All one has to determine, IMHO, is which of those IFs is, in fact, the case.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 5211478, member: 18280"] "Precision of Position" and "Gridless", sure. "Precision" and "Precision of Position" are not the same thing, though. And, also, "at some point", not at all points. In a game system where position can be handled "generally" without any loss of detail, for instance Codex Martialis, one can play without a grid with no loss of precision. Moreover, adding a grid is of no special value AFAICT. Likewise, in 1e, a thief's backstab requires only "general" knowledge of where figures are located. In 1e, were you to use a grid, the grid could be 10-foot squares, or even 20-foot squares, with no effective loss of information or complexity 90 times out of 100. So, yes, handwaving position in 4e is akin to handwaving position in 1e, but the amount of information that is being handwaved -- and the number of PC decisions that are based upon understanding the imagined space to a relatively precise degree -- is much higher. Not outside the realm of human ability, by any means, but much higher....and consequently harder. So: (1) In some cases, foregoing the grid does not mean losing any precision in the game system. (2) In other cases, foregoing the grid means losing minimal precision in the game system. However, (3) In the case of 4e, foregoing the grid means losing a large amount of precision in the game system, and large amounts of precision upon which tactical play/important PC decisions are predicated. It should be obvious that foregoing the grid in the case of (1) or (2) is easier than in the case of (3). IOW, IF (and only if) precise positioning is no more important in 4e than in previous editions, THEN it will be as easy to handwave precise positioning when going gridless. IF (and only if) precise positioning is more important in 4e than in previous editions, THEN it will be harder to handwave precise positioning when going gridless. All one has to determine, IMHO, is which of those IFs is, in fact, the case. RC [/QUOTE]

Verification