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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5212793" data-attributes="member: 18280">That is excellent.  And I can understand the bias against (at least some) modern philosophies!  Nor should you agree with that.  It is an example of a faulty syllogism, just as the example I made was.  What Imaro demonstrated, AFAICT and IMHO, is that D'karr's reasoning relied upon a similar faulty syllogism.And, as you did above, pointing out that a line of reasoning relies upon a faulty syllogism is not "cheap verbal prestidigitation".  It is, instead, one of the most important means by which discussion can be rendered rational.Perhaps I wasn't clear in demarking the example you quote as being a false syllogism?It doesn't have to be for the point to carry.The point is not that 4e is a raging river or a deep chasm; such a point would obviously be ludicrous.  If that is what you are understanding from what I am writing, I am obviously not writing well enough.The point is that, while individual skill modifies the difficulty one has in approaching a situation, this does not mean that one situation is not inherently more difficult than another.If you are a good swimmer, you can swim 100 yards almost as easily as you can swim 50 yards.  Yet it takes more effort to swim 100 yards than 50 yards regardless of how good a swimmer you are.  The extra effort may just seem, to you, negligible.It is factual to say that training to swim will make it easier to swim 100 yards.  It is not factual to say that, therefore, it is no more difficult to swim 100 yards than 50 yards.Or another way of looking at it:  Driving up a grade requires a car to fight gravity.  The steeper the grade, the more it has to fight gravity, and the more energy the car expends.  However, we as drivers may not be aware of this extra effort.  We might conclude that it is as easy (energy-wise) for a vehicle to move uphill as it is to move on a level surface.  It is only when we are on bicycles that we suddenly become aware of the difference......and even then, a trained cyclist might not be as aware of the difference as you or I.However, in all of these cases, the actual degree of extra effort needed is static, and determined by physical laws.  Our perception of how difficult a thing is does not necessarily equate how difficult a thing is.It is reasonable, therefore, to conclude that some folks are perceiving running 4e gridless to be more difficult than it actually is.  It is not reasonable, therefore, to conclude that there is no difference in difficulty.RC</blockquote>

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