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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Goonalan" data-source="post: 5213777" data-attributes="member: 16069">Jumping in at the end also, although I've read parts of the thread along the way. If you check out my sig you can see a stats based story hour that catalogues who did what to who, and to what effect. A turn by turn account of what happened when a group of mostly noobs (4 from 5 had never played a PnP RPG before) played their way through KOTS.If grind is meaningless combat then we've had some of that, although not at the point I'm at in the story so far, it comes later.Why it didn't feel like grind at the time, by which I mean dull, was because-1) Players were into the system, and in the space of KOTS they leveled up several times, and got 'cool' new powers or skills, which they couldn't wait to try out.2) The monsters do cool things too (sometimes), which unless you're a DM & Player (or 4e experienced) then you weren't expecting. When the Ochre Jelly split in two I was faced with a wall of blank stares and open mouths.3) Combat doesn't mean the narrative has to stop. So the Goblins (in translation), scream for Balgron the Fat to help them. Or else make disparaging remarks about various individuals and/or races- make it personal.4) Have the PCs discover something at the end of the combat, yes a magic toy is nice, but better is info from a prisoner, or the hint of something which foreshadows future events.5) Finally provide direction for the combat- 'the Goblins look anxious, keen to escape your spells and steel, several of them glance at the far door- it's obvious that they want to get away, or worse still get reinforcements, not only must you defeat them quickly but you must prevent them from retreating.' I'm not adverse to throwing a few encounters together to make a big mess, and if you do this once or twice then combat becomes something that takes a bit of thinking about, and the use of big guns (Daily/Action) and/or the use of 'cinematic' cool actions.I used to play with another group and we house ruled that any crazy stunt- Dwarf Fight leaps onto Spined Devil, hovering over twenty foot drop into water, and attempts to bear it down and drown it... for example gained a +2 bonus on all rolls needed to attempt. Obviously the monsters got the same bonuses- made for some hilarity.We don't have any problems with Level +4 fights either, yes they take longer but generally the reason for this is because the PCs are struggling- swinging and missing, and getting chopped down- whispering to each other about the possibility of abandoning the fight.In hindsight their are many turns which are just attrition, particularly with Solo creatures, however on paper these look dry (at times), when I think back to them I remember the PCs being desperate to make the bad guy/monster go away (die). Thinking back to the fight in KOTS with the Blue Slime (their first Solo scrap) the PCs were terrified of the thing after it weakened and slowed all but one of them even before it appeared. They just dumped Daily Powers and Action Points in some frightened frenzy.I'm not working out the stats for average encounter times et al much in advance in the story hour, so some of the results are going to be a surprise to me (perhaps). The PCs are only 4 combat encounters in so far so it's pretty early in the piece.I've played up to Level 13 in 4e, I've not kludged a fight yet, am I playing the game wrong? And yes, we've even played through the H series Wizards adventures.Cheers</blockquote>

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