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<blockquote data-quote="Meatboy" data-source="post: 5142245" data-attributes="member: 40857">Ok let's start with an assumption. (risky I know but let's do it anyway) I am going to assume that through out dnd there is a trend for numbers to get bigger. &nbsp;Now in 3e it seemed that the numbers moved at different rates so as the game progressed magic types end up gods, monsters got a double dose of HP and fighters got an extra BAB.&nbsp;For 4e the &quot;math&quot; supposedly has been fixed. But how can the heroes be heroic when everything goes up together for a net gain of zero. Where at level one the heroes take on &quot;guards&quot; at level 10 its the &quot;elite royal guards of the Black Prince&quot; and level 20 sees them taking on the &quot;Demonic guards of the gates of Underzone!&quot; &nbsp;Or if its for skills then at level 1 they are climbing walls while at higher levels its cliffs made of elemental ice or whatever. The only difference seeming to be how big the numbers are at each step. (yes I know that they get more abilities I'll get back to that.)&nbsp;This leads to &quot;power bloat&quot; as the numbers just start to bog down the gaming process and if disparities start to arise that then leads to things like magic item over load where one has to get the next best +X sword to keep ahead of the curve.So this leads me to the question. If everything is getting &quot;bigger&quot; at roughly the same rate but nothing is changing Why have the numbers go up? Why not just design a game so that there is no or minimal &quot;bloat&quot; enough so that pcs can take on new challenges but the math and its associated fiddly bits stay manageable.Anyway just some random idea. Thoughts?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Meatboy, post: 5142245, member: 40857"] Ok let's start with an assumption. (risky I know but let's do it anyway) I am going to assume that through out dnd there is a trend for numbers to get bigger. Now in 3e it seemed that the numbers moved at different rates so as the game progressed magic types end up gods, monsters got a double dose of HP and fighters got an extra BAB. For 4e the "math" supposedly has been fixed. But how can the heroes be heroic when everything goes up together for a net gain of zero. Where at level one the heroes take on "guards" at level 10 its the "elite royal guards of the Black Prince" and level 20 sees them taking on the "Demonic guards of the gates of Underzone!" Or if its for skills then at level 1 they are climbing walls while at higher levels its cliffs made of elemental ice or whatever. The only difference seeming to be how big the numbers are at each step. (yes I know that they get more abilities I'll get back to that.) This leads to "power bloat" as the numbers just start to bog down the gaming process and if disparities start to arise that then leads to things like magic item over load where one has to get the next best +X sword to keep ahead of the curve. So this leads me to the question. If everything is getting "bigger" at roughly the same rate but nothing is changing Why have the numbers go up? Why not just design a game so that there is no or minimal "bloat" enough so that pcs can take on new challenges but the math and its associated fiddly bits stay manageable. Anyway just some random idea. Thoughts? [/QUOTE]

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