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<blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 5157241" data-attributes="member: 80487"><p>I don't recall that from the first edition (<em>Hero Wars</em>) that I have. Nothing <em>fails</em> like success? Besides all else, that's not necessarily the best (much less the <em>only</em>) possible narrative structure, even in the Heroquesting context with which the game was (30 years ago) supposedly to be concerned.</p><p></p><p>Notice the order of things. Read your post #172 <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/274553-why-must-numbers-go-up-12.html#post5156528" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/274553-why-must-numbers-go-up-12.html#post5156528</a> again. See that "because the parameters for the former are less subject to GM discretion", that "discouraging effect of GM discretion"? Yeah, <em>that's</em> what had/has me scratching my head.</p><p></p><p>You're sure? A single two-dice (2d20) curve duplicates the odds of multiple such curves, regardless of where the particular trait values happen to fall? Maybe HQ uses a completely different "core mechanic" now, I guess.</p><p></p><p>Apparently not in any way that changes the answers to the questions.</p><p></p><p>You, however, seem to be against that possibility.</p><p></p><p>Oh? How's that? Are you distinguishing here how you see 4e presented from you would prefer it to work?</p><p></p><p> Unlike traditional games, in which the game-mechanical process does <em>not</em> allow them to succeed? Huh??</p><p></p><p>Where do you <em>get</em> this? How do you expect agreement from anyone actually familiar with Reaction, Loyalty and Morale in <em>D&D</em> and <em>EPT</em>; or Charisma SRs in <em>T&T</em>; or Leadership Potential in <em>Metamorphosis Alpha</em>; or Influence in <em>C&S</em>; or Administration, Bribery, etc., in <em>Traveller</em>; or Oratory in <em>RQ</em>, or ... ??!</p><p></p><p>I think you've got that backwards. The traditional approach, it seems to me, puts more responsibility on the <em>players</em> to decide when and how they occur. </p><p></p><p>You've got something that works for you. That, I think, is about as far as the value of <em>sameness</em> goes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ariosto, post: 5157241, member: 80487"] I don't recall that from the first edition ([I]Hero Wars[/I]) that I have. Nothing [I]fails[/I] like success? Besides all else, that's not necessarily the best (much less the [I]only[/I]) possible narrative structure, even in the Heroquesting context with which the game was (30 years ago) supposedly to be concerned. Notice the order of things. Read your post #172 [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/274553-why-must-numbers-go-up-12.html#post5156528"]http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/274553-why-must-numbers-go-up-12.html#post5156528[/URL] again. See that "because the parameters for the former are less subject to GM discretion", that "discouraging effect of GM discretion"? Yeah, [I]that's[/I] what had/has me scratching my head. You're sure? A single two-dice (2d20) curve duplicates the odds of multiple such curves, regardless of where the particular trait values happen to fall? Maybe HQ uses a completely different "core mechanic" now, I guess. Apparently not in any way that changes the answers to the questions. You, however, seem to be against that possibility. Oh? How's that? Are you distinguishing here how you see 4e presented from you would prefer it to work? Unlike traditional games, in which the game-mechanical process does [I]not[/I] allow them to succeed? Huh?? Where do you [I]get[/I] this? How do you expect agreement from anyone actually familiar with Reaction, Loyalty and Morale in [I]D&D[/I] and [I]EPT[/I]; or Charisma SRs in [I]T&T[/I]; or Leadership Potential in [I]Metamorphosis Alpha[/I]; or Influence in [I]C&S[/I]; or Administration, Bribery, etc., in [I]Traveller[/I]; or Oratory in [I]RQ[/I], or ... ??! I think you've got that backwards. The traditional approach, it seems to me, puts more responsibility on the [I]players[/I] to decide when and how they occur. You've got something that works for you. That, I think, is about as far as the value of [I]sameness[/I] goes. [/QUOTE]
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