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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5157846" data-attributes="member: 42582">Right. But the modern approach doesn't deny this. It's just that it sets the difficulty of the challenge first, and then adds or subtracts factors from the ingame situation to make it the sort of thing apt to be mechanically depicted at those challenge levels.You're correct that, under the modern approach, the idea of "addressing the situation" itself doesn't work like it does in the traditional approach. This is most obvious in a game like HeroQuest, where (for example) equipment ranging from the mundane to magical trinkets are all just abilities able to be used either as primaries or for augments. As I noted upthread in my discussion of bribes, D&D 4e is a bit of a mixed bag in this respect, and therefore needs a bit of mechanical fancy footwork to be used at those points where the traditional (eg detailed equipment lists) and the modern (skill challenges with difficulties first, narration second) come into contact. My personal view is that this is a part of the game where more design effort would help.I think this is a key point. It's one I've seen on these boards multiple times (eg skill challenges are just an exercise in dice rolling). But it's not one that my experience bears out.As opposed to theoretical critique, I wonder if you, or anyone else, has had an actual play experience in which a "modern" game like HeroQuest, The Dying Earth or similar became a mere exercise in dice rolling? I've never heard of such an experience, but then most of the threads I've read discussing these sorts of issues are on RPGnet or The Forge, and obviously on those forums there can be an issue of preaching to the converted.In fact, I might fork this question to a <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/275374-non-combat-encounter-playstyle-preferences.html" target="_blank">new thread</a>!</blockquote>

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