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Why my friends hate talking to me about 5e.
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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 8688319" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>Ok. Clearly you have a very specific and very different idea of what “failure” means than me. But, I think we understand each other’s meaning at this point, so no use arguing over semantics. Just take my use of “fail state” to mean “undesirable outcome.”</p><p></p><p>Sorry you had those experiences. There are definitely groups that do start above first level, including the Critical Role cast, which I think has helped popularize that idea. But, I get how it is; we often have to run the games we wish we could play in, because nobody else is offering precisely what we want. It was definitely the design intent that starting at 3rd be an option for groups who want to skip the vulnerable early game though.</p><p></p><p>Gotcha.</p><p></p><p>That’s ok, such games are not for everyone. But, I imagine you can at least understand that Soulslikes are <em>incredibly popular</em> because they do satisfy something a lot of people want out of their games, even if it isn’t what you want. And I would hope you could understand that some people want a similar sort of experience from D&D.</p><p></p><p>But… retreating <em>is</em> a way of managing exhaustion. That’s why a lot of DMs (and players) find the idea of house rules like this appealing. They want retreat to be a normal part of the gameplay loop. It should be treated what you would consider an undesirable outcome of combat rather than what you would consider a fail state.</p><p></p><p>I definitely don’t think every combat has to be deadly. In fact I think most combats should not be. The gameplay style I’m describing is a resource management and risk management challenge, which means the danger should primarily come from long-term attrition, not immediately deadly combats. You should win <em>most</em> combats you get into. But after enough of them, you should be taxed to the point where you need to retreat to survive.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 8688319, member: 6779196"] Ok. Clearly you have a very specific and very different idea of what “failure” means than me. But, I think we understand each other’s meaning at this point, so no use arguing over semantics. Just take my use of “fail state” to mean “undesirable outcome.” Sorry you had those experiences. There are definitely groups that do start above first level, including the Critical Role cast, which I think has helped popularize that idea. But, I get how it is; we often have to run the games we wish we could play in, because nobody else is offering precisely what we want. It was definitely the design intent that starting at 3rd be an option for groups who want to skip the vulnerable early game though. Gotcha. That’s ok, such games are not for everyone. But, I imagine you can at least understand that Soulslikes are [I]incredibly popular[/I] because they do satisfy something a lot of people want out of their games, even if it isn’t what you want. And I would hope you could understand that some people want a similar sort of experience from D&D. But… retreating [I]is[/I] a way of managing exhaustion. That’s why a lot of DMs (and players) find the idea of house rules like this appealing. They want retreat to be a normal part of the gameplay loop. It should be treated what you would consider an undesirable outcome of combat rather than what you would consider a fail state. I definitely don’t think every combat has to be deadly. In fact I think most combats should not be. The gameplay style I’m describing is a resource management and risk management challenge, which means the danger should primarily come from long-term attrition, not immediately deadly combats. You should win [I]most[/I] combats you get into. But after enough of them, you should be taxed to the point where you need to retreat to survive. [/QUOTE]
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