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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 8689451" data-attributes="member: 42582">OK. I think everyone participating in this thread is aware of this. But that doesn't tell us anything about how combat should be adjudicated, and whether or not combat in a RPG is fun and engaging only if PC death is on the line. Which was what [USER=6747251]@Micah Sweet[/USER] asserted in post 157.Who does the "you" in the second sentence refer to?The players of a RPG are (typically) not in danger. The risks they are exposed to (from gameplay - I'm ignoring the wider social context) are boredom, frustration, anti-climax, and similar experiences that often occur when a game doesn't play as one hoped that it would.I still don't know who your pronouns are referring to: the PCs (they're in danger, but they don't play through any rounds) or the players (they're not in danger, and they're the ones who play through rounds). You also seem to be equating "failure" with "danger" in a way that is confusing.As I posted upthread, the reasons for playing through a combat can be many. They might be similar to the reasons for playing friendly hands of cards, or for spending time solving crosswords. It's possible to be stumped by a crossword; but that doesn't mean you can't pick up another one and try that. It's possible to lose at cards, but as I posted if playing friendly hands then the response is simply to deal another hand and keep playing.In the context of RPGing, presumably we resolve combats to find out what happens, both during and as a result of the fighting. That is completely independent of whether or not the death of PCs is in prospect.I personally find Prince Valiant a far more engaging RPG than 5e D&D, even though 5e D&D has extensive rules for the death of PCs, while Prince Valiant contains the statement (p 26 of the rulebook) that "Normally, death is not an important part of Prince Valiant."I would say the same of Torchbearer 2nd ed: and in Torchbearer if the players initiate a Capture or Drive Off conflict, rather than a Kill conflict, then PC death will not be on the line.The fun and engagement comes (in Prince Valiant) mostly from the fiction, and also (in Torchbearer) from the mechanics and the skilled play of the system. The fact that, in the fiction, defeat for PCs takes a form other than PC death doesn't make the play of the game less fun and engaging. And for the reasons that [USER=6790260]@EzekielRaiden[/USER] and [USER=6877472]@James Gasik[/USER] have given, it can make the game more fun and engaging, as there is not the prospect of being evicted from play for an extended period.</blockquote>

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