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<blockquote data-quote="Water Bob" data-source="post: 5413147" data-attributes="member: 92305">This hits the nail on the head.&nbsp;I think GM's (DM's) should be more stringy when it comes to stats.&nbsp; Allow the 18 to be rare and desired--not commonplace to where each PC has at least one 18 stat. &nbsp;Plus, a stat with a negative modifier (in 3E d20) shouldn't be looked at so negatively.&nbsp;There's a fantastic line by Gary Gygax in the 1E AD&amp;D DMG that says something like:&nbsp; Players are always pulling to make thier characters more powerful.&nbsp; It's the DM's job to keep them in check.&nbsp;I'm paraphrasing, but that's what he meant.&nbsp; Players, and DMs alike, justify high scores these days with comments like, &quot;Well, its no fun not playing a hero!&nbsp; If I wanted to play an average person, then I wouldn't be playing a fantasy game!&quot;&nbsp;I think a hero can be made from a character with stats above as well as below 10.&nbsp;GM's should try to keep the &quot;average&quot; at 10 in their games so that this &quot;stat abuse&quot; doesn't happen.&nbsp;I mean, a character with STR 7 should be extremely playable and not considered unplayable as a PC.&nbsp; This guy can carry around 25 lbs of weight with no problem.&nbsp; That's fairly fit!&nbsp; Even with a medium load, he's akin to some of our military people carrying gear--the STR 7 can carry almost 50 pounds (46 lbs) and be encumbered.&nbsp;Walking around with 46 pounds of gear on you is a pretty tall order for most folks.&nbsp; The guy isn't Conan, but he's not a cripple, either (and he's probably carrying more gear than Frodo does).&nbsp;I think the game, too, is meant for lower stats.&nbsp; Proof in the pudding is the arrays.&nbsp; The 3E DMG says an &quot;elite&quot; array is: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8.&nbsp; And, it says a non-elite array is:&nbsp; 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8.&nbsp;I agree with this.&nbsp; Look at the elite array.&nbsp; I've seen a lot of players consider those numbers very low and consider a character with those stats to be &quot;weak&quot;.&nbsp;On average stat, one marginally below average stat, and four above average stats is not &quot;weak&quot;.&nbsp; It's pretty damn good.&nbsp; Elite.&nbsp;PCs should measure themselves vs the elite array.&nbsp; If they are a lot better than that array, I think they're a bit overpowered (at 1st level, before stat growth at later levels).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Water Bob, post: 5413147, member: 92305"] This hits the nail on the head. I think GM's (DM's) should be more stringy when it comes to stats. Allow the 18 to be rare and desired--not commonplace to where each PC has at least one 18 stat. Plus, a stat with a negative modifier (in 3E d20) shouldn't be looked at so negatively. There's a fantastic line by Gary Gygax in the 1E AD&D DMG that says something like: Players are always pulling to make thier characters more powerful. It's the DM's job to keep them in check. I'm paraphrasing, but that's what he meant. Players, and DMs alike, justify high scores these days with comments like, "Well, its no fun not playing a hero! If I wanted to play an average person, then I wouldn't be playing a fantasy game!" I think a hero can be made from a character with stats above as well as below 10. GM's should try to keep the "average" at 10 in their games so that this "stat abuse" doesn't happen. I mean, a character with STR 7 should be extremely playable and not considered unplayable as a PC. This guy can carry around 25 lbs of weight with no problem. That's fairly fit! Even with a medium load, he's akin to some of our military people carrying gear--the STR 7 can carry almost 50 pounds (46 lbs) and be encumbered. Walking around with 46 pounds of gear on you is a pretty tall order for most folks. The guy isn't Conan, but he's not a cripple, either (and he's probably carrying more gear than Frodo does). I think the game, too, is meant for lower stats. Proof in the pudding is the arrays. The 3E DMG says an "elite" array is: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. And, it says a non-elite array is: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8. I agree with this. Look at the elite array. I've seen a lot of players consider those numbers very low and consider a character with those stats to be "weak". On average stat, one marginally below average stat, and four above average stats is not "weak". It's pretty damn good. Elite. PCs should measure themselves vs the elite array. If they are a lot better than that array, I think they're a bit overpowered (at 1st level, before stat growth at later levels). [/QUOTE]

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