Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
why not a grand mixology game?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Dykstrav" data-source="post: 5831848" data-attributes="member: 40522"><p>Howdy Fire! As far as players that detest mixed genres, I <em>am</em> one of "those guys," so let me share some of my thoughts on "the potential."</p><p></p><p>My single biggest objection to playing such a game is, well... Gamers. They are a lot with diverse tastes and varying levels of maturity, and most of the ones that I know wouldn't agree on any point of contention within this setting. Think of it as another version of "we can't have nice things." here's why.</p><p></p><p>If one character is a relatively "normal" human sorcerer, another is an elven jedi knight, another is a klingon gunslinger from a wild west setting, and another is a radiation-mutated vampire hunter from a post-apocalyse world, we've got some serious issues with what those players <em>expect</em> and <em>want</em> from the game. The first basic question to address is why the hell this group would've gotten together in the first place, much less go on adventures together. You've got to come up with something to get this party together, and it has to be <em>very</em> good to come across as something more than a contrivance. Or you could just hand-wave the cross-genre issues (as many games of this type have done, as far as my experience with them goes), which is just as dissatisfying. There are already plenty of problems with getting players to work together, even when it's an explicitly stated expectation of the setting/genre or the group's preferred style of play. How many orc barbarians threaten violence against fellow player characters, or halfling rogues merrily steal from their fellow party members while the players smugly retort that they are "just playing the character?" That sort of thing will be intensely magnified as you include more and more options.</p><p></p><p>And that's just the first session.</p><p></p><p>Have you ever seen a nerdfight around a gaming table? I don't mean a discussion/argument over the spirit versus the letter of a rule, or a quibble over a bit of lore established in canon published game products versus a semi-canon novel from the 80's. One of those things where people argue "cool" as a point of merit?</p><p></p><p>Should a katana be able to cut through a tank? </p><p></p><p><em>Of course! Katanas are cool, and that's exactly the sort of thing that happens in anime, video games, and comic books all the time!</em></p><p></p><p><em>If the rules say it can. If it's not expressly listed as an option, you can't do that.</em></p><p></p><p><em>The GM should roll the dice for everything instead of setting firm expectations of genre or setting hard limits about what can happen in his game. He's probably going to be passive/aggressive about it and tell the player that he can do it, but needs to roll some insanely high number to pull it off.</em></p><p></p><p><em>Of course not! They're just swords. I'd be glad to go get one of my katanas for you and let you see how much sheet metal you can punch it through.</em></p><p></p><p>Can you imagine the sheer scope of running a game where the standards for character creation include multiple points of "cool?" Just imagining someone bringing in a mage from Monte Cook's World of Darkness and arguing its points with someone playing a spellcaster under the Pathfinder rules makes my head hurt. That's not a game that I'm interested in playing.</p><p></p><p>At a certain point, I'd ask myself why I'm playing this game instead of doing something slightly less obnoxious, like just about anything else that has a recreational purpose. Fortunately, I've had enough experience with various games over the years to know quite firmly where my lines are on these sorts of things.</p><p></p><p>I also wouldn't like the idea of having to effectively playtest a brand-new system while were in the middle of learning it. Although most d20 games are relatively compatible (at least on the most basic levels), there are just far too many variables to account for before playing. Can a jedi use a lightsaber to deflect a <em>scorching ray</em>? Can a western-era gunsmith craft UV-enhanced bullets to affect vampires like sunlight? Does a mage have to make sanity checks for encountering a Deep One that they summon? I'm just not interested in that level of crossover discussion over so many points, especially since the vast majority will likely boil down to GM fiat.</p><p></p><p>I've harped on quite a bit about this particular point... But all these things boil down to making a player's choices matter less. If the GM handwaves or makes on-the-spot calls about too many things, it doesn't matter what my character does. I'm just there to roll the dice.</p><p></p><p>At a certain point, I ask myself, "What the hell is this game <em>about</em>?" If the answer takes more than a sentence or two to explain to someone, it's too complicated.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dykstrav, post: 5831848, member: 40522"] Howdy Fire! As far as players that detest mixed genres, I [I]am[/I] one of "those guys," so let me share some of my thoughts on "the potential." My single biggest objection to playing such a game is, well... Gamers. They are a lot with diverse tastes and varying levels of maturity, and most of the ones that I know wouldn't agree on any point of contention within this setting. Think of it as another version of "we can't have nice things." here's why. If one character is a relatively "normal" human sorcerer, another is an elven jedi knight, another is a klingon gunslinger from a wild west setting, and another is a radiation-mutated vampire hunter from a post-apocalyse world, we've got some serious issues with what those players [I]expect[/I] and [I]want[/I] from the game. The first basic question to address is why the hell this group would've gotten together in the first place, much less go on adventures together. You've got to come up with something to get this party together, and it has to be [I]very[/I] good to come across as something more than a contrivance. Or you could just hand-wave the cross-genre issues (as many games of this type have done, as far as my experience with them goes), which is just as dissatisfying. There are already plenty of problems with getting players to work together, even when it's an explicitly stated expectation of the setting/genre or the group's preferred style of play. How many orc barbarians threaten violence against fellow player characters, or halfling rogues merrily steal from their fellow party members while the players smugly retort that they are "just playing the character?" That sort of thing will be intensely magnified as you include more and more options. And that's just the first session. Have you ever seen a nerdfight around a gaming table? I don't mean a discussion/argument over the spirit versus the letter of a rule, or a quibble over a bit of lore established in canon published game products versus a semi-canon novel from the 80's. One of those things where people argue "cool" as a point of merit? Should a katana be able to cut through a tank? [I]Of course! Katanas are cool, and that's exactly the sort of thing that happens in anime, video games, and comic books all the time![/I] [I]If the rules say it can. If it's not expressly listed as an option, you can't do that.[/I] [I]The GM should roll the dice for everything instead of setting firm expectations of genre or setting hard limits about what can happen in his game. He's probably going to be passive/aggressive about it and tell the player that he can do it, but needs to roll some insanely high number to pull it off.[/I] [I]Of course not! They're just swords. I'd be glad to go get one of my katanas for you and let you see how much sheet metal you can punch it through.[/I] Can you imagine the sheer scope of running a game where the standards for character creation include multiple points of "cool?" Just imagining someone bringing in a mage from Monte Cook's World of Darkness and arguing its points with someone playing a spellcaster under the Pathfinder rules makes my head hurt. That's not a game that I'm interested in playing. At a certain point, I'd ask myself why I'm playing this game instead of doing something slightly less obnoxious, like just about anything else that has a recreational purpose. Fortunately, I've had enough experience with various games over the years to know quite firmly where my lines are on these sorts of things. I also wouldn't like the idea of having to effectively playtest a brand-new system while were in the middle of learning it. Although most d20 games are relatively compatible (at least on the most basic levels), there are just far too many variables to account for before playing. Can a jedi use a lightsaber to deflect a [I]scorching ray[/I]? Can a western-era gunsmith craft UV-enhanced bullets to affect vampires like sunlight? Does a mage have to make sanity checks for encountering a Deep One that they summon? I'm just not interested in that level of crossover discussion over so many points, especially since the vast majority will likely boil down to GM fiat. I've harped on quite a bit about this particular point... But all these things boil down to making a player's choices matter less. If the GM handwaves or makes on-the-spot calls about too many things, it doesn't matter what my character does. I'm just there to roll the dice. At a certain point, I ask myself, "What the hell is this game [I]about[/I]?" If the answer takes more than a sentence or two to explain to someone, it's too complicated. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
why not a grand mixology game?
Top