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<blockquote data-quote="Garthanos" data-source="post: 7922036" data-attributes="member: 82504">And even Battle signs (*or a certain cantrip) though cool, while improving how a help action works seems like its a big thing a help action actually only values in at 1/4 value of just hitting the beastie yourself unless you are significantly unable to hit the bad guy (and actually significantly worse than tripping an enemy in many circumstances where multiple allies can be given advantage or feinting if not) so is only valuable if you absolutely couldn't just do that (this is the kind of valuation to consider) . Giving the help action range is more like making it barely worthwhile it is a long ways from optimal in comparison to using athletics to try and trip which could also be accomplished by some other improvised possibility. Or even just an I hit it with my sword action *(or throwing axe or javelin for range). -Ie help even with range granted by battle signs is like a very small short range throwing weapon single attack with poor or none attribute bonuses&nbsp; (sure could be at-will - but)Note how I handed out in the Predators Stare ability the ability to do the help action at range as a reaction earlier.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Garthanos, post: 7922036, member: 82504"] And even Battle signs (*or a certain cantrip) though cool, while improving how a help action works seems like its a [B]big thing[/B] a help action actually only values in at 1/4 value of just hitting the beastie yourself unless you are significantly unable to hit the bad guy (and actually significantly worse than tripping an enemy in many circumstances where multiple allies can be given advantage or feinting if not) so is only valuable if you absolutely couldn't just do that (this is the kind of valuation to consider) . Giving the help action range is more like making it barely worthwhile it is a long ways from optimal in comparison to using athletics to try and trip which could also be accomplished by some other improvised possibility. Or even just an I hit it with my sword action *(or throwing axe or javelin for range). - Ie help even with range granted by battle signs is like a very small short range throwing weapon single attack with poor or none attribute bonuses (sure could be at-will - but) Note how I handed out in the Predators Stare ability the ability to do the help action at range as a reaction earlier. [/QUOTE]

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