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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 5986353" data-attributes="member: 7635">There is a nasty habit among reductionists to gut anything flavorful out of a class and reduce it nothing more than a means of delivering X ability. Lets take two examples. A 3e wizard and a sorcerer are very different mechanically but have overlapping fluff. (Assuming book learning vs. blood/innate not being terribly different, at least as the mechanics define it.) A Paladin and a Fighter have similar mechanical elements (being melee combatants, one focused on feats the other on special powers) but are day-and-night different in fluff and story. (A trained warrior vs. a living embodiment of Justice and Righteousness.) By reductionist logic: a wizard and a sorcerer are two separate classes as they do two different mechanical things, but the paladin and fighter should be condensed into a theme/background combo, despite the fact that "fighter" and "paladin" are not overly similar concepts while "sorcerer" and "wizard" are practically synonymous. This is just 4e all over again. "Replace "class" with "role" (Defender, Leader, Striker, Controller), and "theme" with "build". If you are fine with this, that's great. I'm not. I HATED that Bards, Clerics, Warlords, and other Leaders all felt similar (a minor action 2/encounter heal, powers that granted minor bonuses to hit/damage, etc). Ditto with all Defenders having a "mark" mechanic. I want a paladin to play differently than a fighter, and I don't just mean "radiant damage" and "different mark effect". Again, why stop there. Why can't a magician be a Holy-man? Why can't a Warrior be a Rogue? Why not just make Rogue a theme so I can have sneaky Fighters or Mages? Why not give Magician's healing and make Cleric a Theme (or a series of themes, based on each god?) The standard should be "Is this a viable fantasy archetype that can be customized via OPTIONAL rules like Theme and Background?" Your standard really is best served with a point-buy or classless system. Honestly, 4e came as close to a classless system as D&D ever was. It needed one step further: it already had everyone using the same power advancement, the same +1/2 level bonus, access to all skills, etc. All a class did was assign you HP, a bonus skill, proficiencies, and a few starter powers. Throw off those shackles and open all powers up and you have the perfect classless system. I could literally build any class out of those powers. We wouldn't need a single class, since I could replicate a fighter, wizard, ranger, assassin, or whatever just by picking the right powers.</blockquote>

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