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<blockquote data-quote="MoonSong" data-source="post: 5990062" data-attributes="member: 6689464">You said it: MOSTLY REDUNDANT instead of FULLY REDUNDANT, the other 10-20% that doesn't overlap (and I think that the non-overlapping parts are at least a 30% or more) is what makes multiclassing worth -from a mechanical point of view, because there are more reasons to multiclass than simple optimmization/munchkinism- and what actually makes the classes unique. Rogue-bard is one of my favorite MC combos (along with fighter-bard) and I can tell you they really doesn't share as much as you'd thinkWhat bard and a rogue have in common in 3.x and 4e:&nbsp;- More trained skills/skill points than average, some overlap in class skills&nbsp;- Medium BAB (3.x) &nbsp;- Good Reflex save/defense &nbsp;- Some weapon proficiencies &nbsp;- Light armor proficiency /cloth and leather proficiencyAnd that is pretty much it.What the bard has that the rogue lacks:&nbsp;- Access to knowledge skills as class skills. (automatic arcana trainning on 4e)&nbsp;- Good Will save/defense&nbsp;- Proficiency with shields&nbsp;- Better weapon proficiencies&nbsp;- Better armor proficiencies (4e)&nbsp;- Bardic music (3.x)&nbsp;- Party support abilities (4e)&nbsp;- Spellcasting (3.x) / Arcane powers (4e)&nbsp;- Overall versatility (4e)What the rogue has that the bard lacks &nbsp;- All thieving skills as class skills/thievery as class skill&nbsp;- More skill points/ more trained skills&nbsp;- Hand crossbow proficiency (3.x)&nbsp;- Single target damage potential (sneak attack)&nbsp;- Trapfinding/trapsense (3.x)&nbsp;- Battlefield Mobility abilities&nbsp; I don't think those differences can be contained inside the rogue's scheme as we know it, as it only contains skills and a trait, and I cannot think of a way to make them fit into a 3-4 feat package and even there it isn't satisfactory, since you don't get full bardness until you reach a high enough level and you ares consuming an important customization resource&nbsp; to get a stereotipical run-of-the-mill bard.And if you think Ranger/Fighter doesn't make any sense, I have a one word answer to it: Drizzit.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="MoonSong, post: 5990062, member: 6689464"] You said it: MOSTLY REDUNDANT instead of FULLY REDUNDANT, the other 10-20% that doesn't overlap (and I think that the non-overlapping parts are at least a 30% or more) is what makes multiclassing worth -from a mechanical point of view, because there are more reasons to multiclass than simple optimmization/munchkinism- and what actually makes the classes unique. Rogue-bard is one of my favorite MC combos (along with fighter-bard) and I can tell you they really doesn't share as much as you'd think What bard and a rogue have in common in 3.x and 4e: - More trained skills/skill points than average, some overlap in class skills - Medium BAB (3.x) - Good Reflex save/defense - Some weapon proficiencies - Light armor proficiency /cloth and leather proficiency And that is pretty much it. What the bard has that the rogue lacks: - Access to knowledge skills as class skills. (automatic arcana trainning on 4e) - Good Will save/defense - Proficiency with shields - Better weapon proficiencies - Better armor proficiencies (4e) - Bardic music (3.x) - Party support abilities (4e) - Spellcasting (3.x) / Arcane powers (4e) - Overall versatility (4e) What the rogue has that the bard lacks - All thieving skills as class skills/thievery as class skill - More skill points/ more trained skills - Hand crossbow proficiency (3.x) - Single target damage potential (sneak attack) - Trapfinding/trapsense (3.x) - Battlefield Mobility abilities I don't think those differences can be contained inside the rogue's scheme as we know it, as it only contains skills and a trait, and I cannot think of a way to make them fit into a 3-4 feat package and even there it isn't satisfactory, since you don't get full bardness until you reach a high enough level and you ares consuming an important customization resource to get a stereotipical run-of-the-mill bard. And if you think Ranger/Fighter doesn't make any sense, I have a one word answer to it: Drizzit. [/QUOTE]

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