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<blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 3868847" data-attributes="member: 2268">I disagree here. Actually, I think the game would get along without save-or-die effects easier than without something like coup de grace, and I'm damn happy they actually instated a rule for how it works in 3E. One situation, and a very important one, where this rule would be missed would be new players. As a rule of thumb, players who are new to roleplaying games don't describe their action in &quot;game terms&quot; but rather in terms more close to reality. And you can bet you'll get a lot of disbelieving comments when you tell somebody who was about to &quot;slit the throat of the guy who's standing there paralyzed and helpless&quot; that he can't do that because the system doesn't allow for that.If, on the other hand, the game simply goes back to &quot;the DM rules when instant kills are appropriate&quot;, you'll have to rely on good DM calls, a direction the game has been running from for 8 years now.If situations like held PCs with enemy in immediate coup de grace reach happen too often in your games that it might turn into a problem, I'd advise checking the encounters for that potential before it happens, and defuse it a little. Not every enemy caster will have Hold Person memorized every time, and positioning might not allow for a coup de grace all the time either. As for killing sleeping characters...if they are setting up camp and go to sleeo in &quot;enemy territory&quot; without setting up a regular watch, or at least a few Alarm spells, they should at least suffer some from that oversight. Killing them might be a bit harsh, but monsters will definitely take advantage if they can. Usually, more experienced players will set a watch schedule anyway, and novice players learn the folly of not doing so at very early levels, thus not being out of the game for too long.Play the NPCs and monsters the way your players play their characters...and if you want to show them a different way to play, NPCs and monsters are your prime tools to set examples of what else is also appropriate.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Geron Raveneye, post: 3868847, member: 2268"] I disagree here. Actually, I think the game would get along without save-or-die effects easier than without something like coup de grace, and I'm damn happy they actually instated a rule for how it works in 3E. One situation, and a very important one, where this rule would be missed would be new players. As a rule of thumb, players who are new to roleplaying games don't describe their action in "game terms" but rather in terms more close to reality. And you can bet you'll get a lot of disbelieving comments when you tell somebody who was about to "slit the throat of the guy who's standing there paralyzed and helpless" that he can't do that because the system doesn't allow for that. If, on the other hand, the game simply goes back to "the DM rules when instant kills are appropriate", you'll have to rely on good DM calls, a direction the game has been running from for 8 years now. If situations like held PCs with enemy in immediate coup de grace reach happen too often in your games that it might turn into a problem, I'd advise checking the encounters for that potential before it happens, and defuse it a little. Not every enemy caster will have [i]Hold Person[/i] memorized every time, and positioning might not allow for a coup de grace all the time either. As for killing sleeping characters...if they are setting up camp and go to sleeo in "enemy territory" without setting up a regular watch, or at least a few [i]Alarm[/i] spells, they should at least suffer some from that oversight. Killing them might be a bit harsh, but monsters will definitely take advantage if they can. Usually, more experienced players will set a watch schedule anyway, and novice players learn the folly of not doing so at very early levels, thus not being out of the game for too long. Play the NPCs and monsters the way your players play their characters...and if you want to show them a different way to play, NPCs and monsters are your prime tools to set examples of what else is also appropriate. [/QUOTE]

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