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<blockquote data-quote="Tonguez" data-source="post: 8424014" data-attributes="member: 1125">okay invoking the Incredibles was flippant, I can appreciate level limits, but there are a whole lot of low level utility spells Like goodberry, magic missile,the skill spells Im referring to are things like Knock,&nbsp; Know Direction/Find the Path - why do I need a friggin spell to find north?&nbsp;I dont even like Heal Spells without a First Aid skill (the spell restores HP but it doesnt stop bleeding or seal the wound)I do think some of my concerns are ameliorated by a skill based magic system since there is the opportunity cost to acquire magic v another skill.In my mind something like the Alvin Maker series notion that everyone has a knack (cantrip level) is fine, and even things like all soldiers getting a shield spell works. (I certainly do that in Sci-Fi settings)One of the things I like to do is take things like Hunters mark or animal friendship and make them Class Abilities instead of spells, its one of the reasons I really liked featsHunters Mark allows a ranger to get advantage on tracking and slaying a chosen animal - get rid of the mystical link and just make it a skilled hunter taking time to identify and study their prey (Wisdom skill check, no magic required)&nbsp;I can accept the concept, especially in a world where magic = technology. A spell that lets a Blacksmith do amazing things - say create crystaline steel is fun, but I do have an issue with spells that do nothing that a skilled Blacksmiths cant do by their own effort - like sharpening a blade for instance.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tonguez, post: 8424014, member: 1125"] okay invoking the Incredibles was flippant, I can appreciate level limits, but there are a whole lot of low level utility spells Like goodberry, magic missile, the skill spells Im referring to are things like Knock, Know Direction/Find the Path - why do I need a friggin spell to find north? I dont even like Heal Spells without a First Aid skill (the spell restores HP but it doesnt stop bleeding or seal the wound) I do think some of my concerns are ameliorated by a skill based magic system since there is the opportunity cost to acquire magic v another skill. In my mind something like the Alvin Maker series notion that everyone has a knack (cantrip level) is fine, and even things like all soldiers getting a shield spell works. (I certainly do that in Sci-Fi settings) One of the things I like to do is take things like Hunters mark or animal friendship and make them Class Abilities instead of spells, its one of the reasons I really liked feats Hunters Mark allows a ranger to get advantage on tracking and slaying a chosen animal - get rid of the mystical link and just make it a skilled hunter taking time to identify and study their prey (Wisdom skill check, no magic required) I can accept the concept, especially in a world where magic = technology. A spell that lets a Blacksmith do amazing things - say create crystaline steel is fun, but I do have an issue with spells that do nothing that a skilled Blacksmiths cant do by their own effort - like sharpening a blade for instance. [/QUOTE]

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