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Message: <blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 8425124" data-attributes="member: 6779310">I know players of 4 different types of motivations for this:<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Because it comes with other benefits</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">For the Challenge</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Avoid the Complexity</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Because it's thematically appropriate </li> </ol>Other Benefits...In D&D 5E, that's<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fighter:  more HP, better with weapons</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Barbarian: more HP, better with weapons (but not as far as fighters), increased stat maximum for ST & Con</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rogue: better damage, better stealth, can actually learn skills to better levels than any other class</li> </ul>In Tunnels and Trolls, I may as well discuss all 4 "Types" (core classes) from the 5E rules and the explicit one and implied one from the 1E Monsters! Monsters! rules:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Core<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Warrior: double armor's value (damage reduction), but cannot cast spells by any means. (Some later editions increase combat adds, as well)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wizard: reduce spell costs by (CL-SL; can further reduce by using a staff, cannot use weapons with 3D or more combat potential. (Daggers, staves, and slings all have 2d base, but various adds/subtracts to/from those 2d. At higher levels, can create spells</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rogue: Can cast spells, but cannot reduce spell costs. Can use any weapon or armor at base. Cannot buy spells from the guild.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Warrior-Wizard (later called Paragon): reduce spell costs by (CL-SL)/2, reduce with staff, +1 to value of worn armor, +1 to shield's Armor</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monsters! Monsters!<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Monster: kindred specific special abilities, unarmed damage = level. Can cast spells, can use weapons. Cannot reduce spell costs, cannot reduce magic costs by either means.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Normal Man (implied): do not know magic, but can be taught like rogues; cannot reduce the costs. Can use any weapons Do not gain any other bonuses. </li> </ul></li> </ul>T&T Warriors suck up damage. In actual play, they make saving rolls to do things that allow them to take others' share of damage. It's not actually written in the rules that way, but it's part of the game that is implied strongly enough that most think it is. It's also worth noting that damage in T&T is to Con, so fighters don't actually have significantly more damage capacity than wizards... Deluxe has shuffled things a bit, but basically, the core is the same, tho' a bunch of "specialists" exist (one per attribute), all characters get one talent (rogues get a second), Normal Men are formally a class, but have to roll to cast every spell, and thei get to increase a talent every level by 1.For the ChallengeSome players simply like the challenge of not using all the available advantages. To avoid the complexities of the Magic SystemMost games magic systems add complexity to the character in excess of non-magical abilities. This is VERY true in D&D and T&T.It's not particularly true in L5R 5E, since other kinds of abilities use the same mechanics, but spells have more limitations.Because it's thematically appropriate.Some players choose to play non-casters simply because the genre includes protagonists who aren't spellcasters. For example, in Ars Magica, it's thematic for non-mages to be part of the party, either as primary or secondary characters,  because Mages have limits on allowed actions (due to setting guild rules, not mechanics), which custos characters do not.</blockquote>

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