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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SkredlitheOgre" data-source="post: 5731115" data-attributes="member: 99513">Yeah, I saw that, but we're only using the Core Rulebook, so that's not an option.  I think it looks pretty cool, though.See, the problem I see with this thinking is that yes, there is someone who does what the Monk does better than the Monk at INDIVIDUAL ABILITIES, except for Fast Movement.  The Monk, in my opinion, puts all of these middling abilities into a pretty good package.  Fast Movement, good saves, decent to good combat ability and damage (my Monk now does 1d10 per attack with FoB, compared to the Barbarian's 2d6 with his greatsword), special abilities with the Ki Pool...I think the Monk is a fun class to play, as long as you don't try to play him as a Fighter, which I think is what a lot of people try to do.Sorry.  You mentioned having move + FoB be an 'always-on ability at low levels,' so I assumed there was something you were going to exchange it with when you determined that the Monk was no longer 'low level.' See I wouldn't mind that being a Ki ability, because in my opinion, there has to be a tradeoff.  Something like 'At the cost of one Ki point, if you move less than your full movement rate, you can use Flurry of Blows as an attack action.'  Granted, you'd have to wait until 4th level to use it, but by that point, your FoB attack progression is +2/+2, so you have a decent chance of hitting.Here's a question:  If you give this as a 1st-level ability, but the problems (that I've read, anyway) is the 'horrible attack progression' and 'MADness' of the Monk, then what difference would this make?  At 1st level, the Monk's FoB progression is -1/-1, you actually have a better chance to hit not using FoB, since your BAB at 1st level is +0.  So, unless you have a +1 (or better) Monk weapon at 1st and 2nd level to make up for the -2 due to Two Weapon Fighting, using the single attack makes more sense, at least to me. I would love to see that list.  Since our group is just using the Core Rulebook (for now), hopefully it would be something that we could include at a later time. One thing I've heard is that you should NEVER take Spring Attack because you only get one attack with it.  I like seeing examples of how things can be used that 'everyone' hates because it's (theoretically) 'suboptimal.' This right here.  If you go into playing the Monk class like a Fighter, Barbarian, or Paladin, all front line, heavy damage dealing classes, then you're going to be disappointed.Yeah, I was noticing that too, when I was going through the APG and it didn't make any sense.  Granted, I haven't played anything out of the APG yet, so I have no in-game experience, but yeah...that made no sense.</blockquote>

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