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Why not monks?
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<blockquote data-quote="Mad Hamish" data-source="post: 5741805" data-attributes="member: 25321"><p>If you make an immediate action when it's not your turn you can't make an immediate or swift action until after your next turn.</p><p>So you can get 2 in one round (on your turn, before your next turn) but only every second round and it's not common you need to use defense on your turn.</p><p></p><p>Also it does mean you aren't using other swift or immediate actions. I'm not really up with what monk powers are swift actions to activate.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Dunno, if it's got the same equipment as the monk you give below I make it +14/+14/+9/+9 attacking with flurry doing 2d6 + 6 </p><p>or +12/+12/+7/+7 doing 2d6+10 with power attack on</p><p></p><p>Now a Bebilith has DR 10/Good which means that an average hit will do 3 damage to it or 7 with power attack</p><p></p><p>you need 8/13 or better to hit doing 3 damage on a hit </p><p>average damage 65% * 3 * 2 + 40% * 3 * 2 = an average of around 6.3 damage a round to the bebilith</p><p></p><p>or 10/15 doing 7 damage on a hit with Power Attack</p><p>55 % * 7 *2 + 30% * 7 *2</p><p>13.3 hp a round</p><p></p><p></p><p>It's attacking at +19 on each attack and your standard AC is 28 so even giving you an automatic miss on the sense motive for 1 attack a round gives him a 9 or better to hit you on 2 attacks a round doing 2D6 + 9 or 2D4 + 9 </p><p></p><p>so a claw hit averages 14 damage to you and has a 60% chance of hitting </p><p>so that's an average of around 16-17 hp damage to you per round</p><p></p><p>(or power attack for +15 putting the damage up to +17)</p><p></p><p>average 22 on a claw hit, 40% chance to hit averaging 17.6 damage per round</p><p></p><p>and it has 150 hp compared to 83 for you (assuming average hp)</p><p></p><p>so you will last an average of 5 rounds of full attacks, it will last an average of 12 rounds of your full attacks.</p><p></p><p>Your attacks of opportunity on a miss aren't going to make up for that.</p><p></p><p>I've got a level 11 fighter who has +20/+15/+10 with a +2 holy falchion doing 2d4 + 24 + 2D6 holy damage (both figures while power attacking) and a 31 AC. Crits on a 15+ </p><p>That's the sort of thing a level 10 or 11 character can do.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>An iron golem has +28 to hit, you don't have an automatic dodge on that with the feats you've chosen (about a 50/50) if you trade something for alertness and get the +5 from a magic item then you've got +34 </p><p></p><p>So you're not assured of a miss. The second attack is pretty much assured of a hit and you aren't going to be standing up against it for long.</p><p></p><p>And it's got 15 damage resistance you aren't getting past (admittedly with the Monk's Robe you would be at level 11)</p><p></p><p>so yeah you can build a monk who's fairly tough to hit but is lacking on attack.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, but they aren't usable if you're using the Sense Motive for AC Swap.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What do you see the job of a skirmisher being? </p><p>Because in general full attacking rules in D20 based games and flurry is such a large part of Monk that they need it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mad Hamish, post: 5741805, member: 25321"] If you make an immediate action when it's not your turn you can't make an immediate or swift action until after your next turn. So you can get 2 in one round (on your turn, before your next turn) but only every second round and it's not common you need to use defense on your turn. Also it does mean you aren't using other swift or immediate actions. I'm not really up with what monk powers are swift actions to activate. Dunno, if it's got the same equipment as the monk you give below I make it +14/+14/+9/+9 attacking with flurry doing 2d6 + 6 or +12/+12/+7/+7 doing 2d6+10 with power attack on Now a Bebilith has DR 10/Good which means that an average hit will do 3 damage to it or 7 with power attack you need 8/13 or better to hit doing 3 damage on a hit average damage 65% * 3 * 2 + 40% * 3 * 2 = an average of around 6.3 damage a round to the bebilith or 10/15 doing 7 damage on a hit with Power Attack 55 % * 7 *2 + 30% * 7 *2 13.3 hp a round It's attacking at +19 on each attack and your standard AC is 28 so even giving you an automatic miss on the sense motive for 1 attack a round gives him a 9 or better to hit you on 2 attacks a round doing 2D6 + 9 or 2D4 + 9 so a claw hit averages 14 damage to you and has a 60% chance of hitting so that's an average of around 16-17 hp damage to you per round (or power attack for +15 putting the damage up to +17) average 22 on a claw hit, 40% chance to hit averaging 17.6 damage per round and it has 150 hp compared to 83 for you (assuming average hp) so you will last an average of 5 rounds of full attacks, it will last an average of 12 rounds of your full attacks. Your attacks of opportunity on a miss aren't going to make up for that. I've got a level 11 fighter who has +20/+15/+10 with a +2 holy falchion doing 2d4 + 24 + 2D6 holy damage (both figures while power attacking) and a 31 AC. Crits on a 15+ That's the sort of thing a level 10 or 11 character can do. An iron golem has +28 to hit, you don't have an automatic dodge on that with the feats you've chosen (about a 50/50) if you trade something for alertness and get the +5 from a magic item then you've got +34 So you're not assured of a miss. The second attack is pretty much assured of a hit and you aren't going to be standing up against it for long. And it's got 15 damage resistance you aren't getting past (admittedly with the Monk's Robe you would be at level 11) so yeah you can build a monk who's fairly tough to hit but is lacking on attack. Yeah, but they aren't usable if you're using the Sense Motive for AC Swap. What do you see the job of a skirmisher being? Because in general full attacking rules in D20 based games and flurry is such a large part of Monk that they need it. [/QUOTE]
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