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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gorgoroth" data-source="post: 5891328" data-attributes="member: 6674889">yeahsure those things are great. That's why you have a cleric and a wizard in the party, so you can do those things. The wizard's teleport will be used to ferry the entire party to another continent, and the cleric will bring you all to another world, for more adventure.There is simply no way you can balance those two things when looked at in a vaccuum. Sure, I can teleport a couple times a day as a wizard. To where? On my own? = To where the party isn't. That isn't fun. What DM wants to DM someone doing a solo adventure? In my experience, this type of scene swapping ala Empire Strikes back between adventuring parties with simultaneous but disjoint narratives leads to boredom on behalf of players that aren't there.But don't forget : The wizard will be casting fly on the fighter, so HE can go up and chase the fire dragon with his sword above the castle walls. What wizard would want to be toe-to-toe, even in air. At 9th level, you should be doing world-changing stuff, even in a low magic setting. The game implies it. In short : Those spells you mentioned, are expected to be used!! They frame what is possible from the PCs, as a group, and just because a wizard or cleric can do some awesome stuff, doesn't mean fighters stop liking what they do too. Fighters will have that flaming sword, or boots of speed for that extra attack, and my barbarian...whew : when he's 9th-10th level he will be full attacking every round on a charge with Greater Beast Totem, with speed 40. He also gets to dispell magic at-will. How many times can you do that as a wizard? His touch AC will be insane thanks to his superstition bonus. There are tons of builds in pathfinder that work well, mechanically, and a lot of them are melee builds. When you ask : in a one on one fight, who wins? Often the answer is still : whoever wins initiative. But that's the wrong question. Another question that's wrong is : who can do the entire adventure single-handedly? Sure, the wizard can get to the evil BBEG's lair, but without muscle, how can they defeat even one or two mooks? Ok clerics maybe, but they will still drop in AC and DPR relative to melee types, quite fast. The only insanely OP thing I've seen so far, is when I brought a level 10 synthesist to a table for a one-off session. I basically killed the entire battle myself, the rest of the party was so outmatched it wasn't even funny. It had a massive earth titan or some kind of giant with DR and awesome blow and threatening reach, but my AC was like 31 or something stupid like that, and I was doing 4-5 attacks a round, size large, with reach, magic resist, darkvision, 50 fly speed, like 3d6 + 12 x4 damage per round. And like a sick, sick amount of HP. Then in another game with evil guys, I took a brood master summoner with the skeletal champion feat, and keep summoning wave after wave of them. They all had cleave and were just insane, against essentially an army we stood our ground and slaughtered the city guard in a chokehold. I can't BELIEVE how many attacks I was doing per round. The action economy was waaay broken. They should rebalance the summoner class for less evolution points or something. And certainly the synthesist shouldn't have double HP. It's ludicrous.</blockquote>

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