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Why PCs should be competent, or "I got a lot of past in my past"
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 9265186" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>I don't really think this has anything (much) to do with system, much less D&D. I think this is an issue of aesthetics of play and that fundamentally it has to do with campaign design and GM aesthetics of story and color of action. There is nothing in D&D inherently getting in the way the aesthetic and there is nothing that creates the aesthetic just by having bigger numbers. The only thing that system really has to do with this is that at a fundamental level, how often does the fortune mechanic expect failure. For some games like FATE failure might be expected like 60% of the time as the normal state that the PC is in, but in D&D the things you are good at failure is only expected like 25% of the time and even 1st and 2nd level characters are pretty competent and can rely on their skills. </p><p></p><p>Since this is really about the "Fantasy" aesthetic though, this has to do with how actions are colored, how the player perceives his own character's worth, and what the character is capable of relative to what NPCs are capable of. And that I think is a big disconnect, because when you or others describe what they want, I don't see high level characters at all. I just see success with the color of triumph. I'm just seeing characters getting shining moments of awesome that have little to do with notions of high level as I understand it, and which instead have everything to do (in RPG terms) with just GM's protagonizing characters in play and validating success.</p><p></p><p>Now for me, as far as my expectations go, it has nothing to do with D&D and everything to do with concepts like villain decay. I don't have that validation you are seeking from shining moments of awesome unless they come with moments of adversity that prove being awesome was actually awesome. This is true regardless of what media I'm consuming whether it's a novel, a TV show, or an RPG. I dropped Jim Butcher's Dresden files books like a hot potato after like three books because Harry was never really threatened by anything and didn't earn any of his victories because he was so freaking awesome and had so much plot protection that it was dull. I'd loved the series more of Harry was low level and actually had to be clever than if it turned out that right from the start he was like one of the highest level characters in the universe. It did absolutely nothing for me. But that's subjective. A lot of people loved that series. I considered Harry one of the worst written characters I'd ever encountered in fiction.</p><p></p><p>It's got nothing to do with D&D</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 9265186, member: 4937"] I don't really think this has anything (much) to do with system, much less D&D. I think this is an issue of aesthetics of play and that fundamentally it has to do with campaign design and GM aesthetics of story and color of action. There is nothing in D&D inherently getting in the way the aesthetic and there is nothing that creates the aesthetic just by having bigger numbers. The only thing that system really has to do with this is that at a fundamental level, how often does the fortune mechanic expect failure. For some games like FATE failure might be expected like 60% of the time as the normal state that the PC is in, but in D&D the things you are good at failure is only expected like 25% of the time and even 1st and 2nd level characters are pretty competent and can rely on their skills. Since this is really about the "Fantasy" aesthetic though, this has to do with how actions are colored, how the player perceives his own character's worth, and what the character is capable of relative to what NPCs are capable of. And that I think is a big disconnect, because when you or others describe what they want, I don't see high level characters at all. I just see success with the color of triumph. I'm just seeing characters getting shining moments of awesome that have little to do with notions of high level as I understand it, and which instead have everything to do (in RPG terms) with just GM's protagonizing characters in play and validating success. Now for me, as far as my expectations go, it has nothing to do with D&D and everything to do with concepts like villain decay. I don't have that validation you are seeking from shining moments of awesome unless they come with moments of adversity that prove being awesome was actually awesome. This is true regardless of what media I'm consuming whether it's a novel, a TV show, or an RPG. I dropped Jim Butcher's Dresden files books like a hot potato after like three books because Harry was never really threatened by anything and didn't earn any of his victories because he was so freaking awesome and had so much plot protection that it was dull. I'd loved the series more of Harry was low level and actually had to be clever than if it turned out that right from the start he was like one of the highest level characters in the universe. It did absolutely nothing for me. But that's subjective. A lot of people loved that series. I considered Harry one of the worst written characters I'd ever encountered in fiction. It's got nothing to do with D&D [/QUOTE]
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