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<blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 7289041" data-attributes="member: 15700">This was your response to Celebrim saying:And I'm telling you this is false, because the widely accepted and proven studies of human behavior state that almost everyone will.&nbsp; Not &quot;some&quot;.&nbsp; Your comment was completely dismissive of the actual science behind human behavior.&nbsp; I've never denied that there may be an exception here and there, but we're not talking about exceptions.&nbsp; We're talking about how things may affect human behavior on a whole.&nbsp; And something like a death penalty will have an affect.&nbsp; We have plenty of evidence of this.&nbsp; You have not provided any evidence that D&amp;D is somehow exempt from this, other than to say &quot;I haven't seen it, and this other guy isn't sure.&quot;&nbsp; Anecdotal evidence is not evidence.&nbsp; Sorry.More irony.&nbsp; The only person here refusing things is you refusing to admit how basic human behavior works; a topic that has been widely studied and theories proven over literally centuries.And I'm telling you it's almost all.&nbsp; A universal truth that has been proven scientifically.&nbsp; Not &quot;some&quot;.&nbsp; When talking in general, it's the accepted default.Ad hominem aside.. What murders talk?&nbsp; The part where I said killing the actual players?&nbsp; That wasn't much more hyperbole than you saying to not allow players to play the game again until the next campaign.&nbsp; I.e., neither scenario actually happens, neither is part of the actual rules about penalties for PCs dying, therefore both are ridiculous examples that shouldn't even be considered and certainly don't &quot;cheapen the death of a PC in the game.&quot;Yes!&nbsp; Well, ignoring your hyperbole strawman again that is (I said the behavior changes, not that they instantly go &quot;video game resave crazy&quot;).&nbsp;&nbsp; I said that way early in this thread:&quot;IME, players are a lot more cautious in 1e. It's not because character creation takes less time, it's because it's actually an accomplishment to make it to 4th or 5th level. And with so many save or die, traps, and whatnot, the players are a lot more cautious in 1e. Also, a mid to high level PC like a MU or thief could die in one round from &quot;regular' monsters like an owlbear or ogre since HP were much less. You don't see very many groups with 10ft pole in 5e describing in great detail how they are approaching that chest, where that's pretty much the default in 1e.&quot;So the behavior of the players has changed to be less cautious when the risk to the PCs has been reduced.The studies of risk v reward is well documented.&nbsp; <a href="https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&amp;ei=UAwfWp_vMoOa_QaJn4DICA&amp;q=how+risk+vs+reward+psychology&amp;oq=how+risk+v+reward&amp;gs_l=psy-ab.1.2.33i22i29i30k1l10.1280.4875.0.7925.22.19.0.0.0.0.283.2434.0j9j4.13.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..9.12.2149.0..0j0i131k1j0i22i30k1.0.UNYT2I3AmHI" target="_blank">Here's a basic google search </a>with thousands of articles for you to read.&nbsp; I don't know why you insist on the qualifier for a specific study of death taxes in a TTRPG.&nbsp; That infers that you think that TTRPGS are exempt from this very common and basic aspect of human behavior.&nbsp; I'd love to see your actual evidence as to why the basic human behavior of risk v reward that applies to everything else doesn't apply to RPGs.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sacrosanct, post: 7289041, member: 15700"] This was your response to Celebrim saying: And I'm telling you this is false, because the widely accepted and proven studies of human behavior state that almost everyone will. Not "some". Your comment was completely dismissive of the actual science behind human behavior. I've never denied that there may be an exception here and there, but we're not talking about exceptions. We're talking about how things may affect human behavior on a whole. And something like a death penalty will have an affect. We have plenty of evidence of this. You have not provided any evidence that D&D is somehow exempt from this, other than to say "I haven't seen it, and this other guy isn't sure." Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. Sorry. More irony. The only person here refusing things is you refusing to admit how basic human behavior works; a topic that has been widely studied and theories proven over literally centuries. And I'm telling you it's almost all. A universal truth that has been proven scientifically. Not "some". When talking in general, it's the accepted default. Ad hominem aside.. What murders talk? The part where I said killing the actual players? That wasn't much more hyperbole than you saying to not allow players to play the game again until the next campaign. I.e., neither scenario actually happens, neither is part of the actual rules about penalties for PCs dying, therefore both are ridiculous examples that shouldn't even be considered and certainly don't "cheapen the death of a PC in the game." Yes! Well, ignoring your hyperbole strawman again that is (I said the behavior changes, not that they instantly go "video game resave crazy"). I said that way early in this thread: "IME, players are a lot more cautious in 1e. It's not because character creation takes less time, it's because it's actually an accomplishment to make it to 4th or 5th level. And with so many save or die, traps, and whatnot, the players are a lot more cautious in 1e. Also, a mid to high level PC like a MU or thief could die in one round from "regular' monsters like an owlbear or ogre since HP were much less. You don't see very many groups with 10ft pole in 5e describing in great detail how they are approaching that chest, where that's pretty much the default in 1e." So the behavior of the players has changed to be less cautious when the risk to the PCs has been reduced. The studies of risk v reward is well documented. [URL="https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=UAwfWp_vMoOa_QaJn4DICA&q=how+risk+vs+reward+psychology&oq=how+risk+v+reward&gs_l=psy-ab.1.2.33i22i29i30k1l10.1280.4875.0.7925.22.19.0.0.0.0.283.2434.0j9j4.13.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..9.12.2149.0..0j0i131k1j0i22i30k1.0.UNYT2I3AmHI"]Here's a basic google search [/URL]with thousands of articles for you to read. I don't know why you insist on the qualifier for a specific study of death taxes in a TTRPG. That infers that you think that TTRPGS are exempt from this very common and basic aspect of human behavior. I'd love to see your actual evidence as to why the basic human behavior of risk v reward that applies to everything else doesn't apply to RPGs. [/QUOTE]

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