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Why penalize returning from death?
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7289149" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>There's an underlying question here being ignored by some (all?) in this discussion: which story is more important, that of an individual character or that of the party as a whole?</p><p></p><p>In my view it's obviously that of the party, and thus of the campaign. A TPK (probably) ends that story; an individual character death, be it temporary or permanent, does not.</p><p></p><p>So why penalize death? (and note it's the death you're penalizing, not the return as the thread title suggests)</p><p></p><p>Quite simply, because death is one form of "losing" at D&D and if it's not penalized somehow then what's the consequence of losing? Out-of-character, sitting out as a player isn't much of a penalty in 5e given as you'll probably be Revivified before you've had time to grab a beer from the fridge. Your PC likely won't lose any xp, given as 5e promotes either group xp or DM-fiat/milestone levelling, so no penalty there either. In-character, you drop dead from some massive blow then less than a minute later you're set to go with no lasting consequences - no penalty there either.</p><p></p><p>That said, the negative consequences of a PC death have become less and less over the editions. In 1e (and 2e I think) a revived character had to make a resurrection survival roll based on Con in order to come back to life at all, and if successful would find itself alive but forever down one point of Con. 3e dropped the resurrection survival roll and brought you back with a negative level on you...which, if memory serves, could be removed over time (or was that 3.5?). In 4e revival was automatic if attempted provided the PC wanted to return but still needed a 9th-level caster; 5e lowered the level at which parties potentially had revival available in the field, and also greatly lowered the monetary cost/sacrifice required.</p><p></p><p>Another factor was PC level. In 1e and 2e getting to 9th level and thus having access to Raise Dead in the field was a big deal. 9th-level in 3e comes much faster; in 4e faster still, and 5th-level in 5e comes in a couple of heartbeats by comparison.</p><p></p><p>So, revival has by RAW become both easier to accomplish mechanically and less taxing (both physically and monetarily) on the character as time has passed. A good thing? Not in my estimation.</p><p></p><p>The dead 90%.</p><p></p><p>DCCRPG codified this as the 'funnel method' of PC generation. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Lan-"I revive again a long-ago quote from one of my players: 'Dungeons without mortality are dungeons without life.'"-efan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7289149, member: 29398"] There's an underlying question here being ignored by some (all?) in this discussion: which story is more important, that of an individual character or that of the party as a whole? In my view it's obviously that of the party, and thus of the campaign. A TPK (probably) ends that story; an individual character death, be it temporary or permanent, does not. So why penalize death? (and note it's the death you're penalizing, not the return as the thread title suggests) Quite simply, because death is one form of "losing" at D&D and if it's not penalized somehow then what's the consequence of losing? Out-of-character, sitting out as a player isn't much of a penalty in 5e given as you'll probably be Revivified before you've had time to grab a beer from the fridge. Your PC likely won't lose any xp, given as 5e promotes either group xp or DM-fiat/milestone levelling, so no penalty there either. In-character, you drop dead from some massive blow then less than a minute later you're set to go with no lasting consequences - no penalty there either. That said, the negative consequences of a PC death have become less and less over the editions. In 1e (and 2e I think) a revived character had to make a resurrection survival roll based on Con in order to come back to life at all, and if successful would find itself alive but forever down one point of Con. 3e dropped the resurrection survival roll and brought you back with a negative level on you...which, if memory serves, could be removed over time (or was that 3.5?). In 4e revival was automatic if attempted provided the PC wanted to return but still needed a 9th-level caster; 5e lowered the level at which parties potentially had revival available in the field, and also greatly lowered the monetary cost/sacrifice required. Another factor was PC level. In 1e and 2e getting to 9th level and thus having access to Raise Dead in the field was a big deal. 9th-level in 3e comes much faster; in 4e faster still, and 5th-level in 5e comes in a couple of heartbeats by comparison. So, revival has by RAW become both easier to accomplish mechanically and less taxing (both physically and monetarily) on the character as time has passed. A good thing? Not in my estimation. The dead 90%. DCCRPG codified this as the 'funnel method' of PC generation. :) Lan-"I revive again a long-ago quote from one of my players: 'Dungeons without mortality are dungeons without life.'"-efan [/QUOTE]
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