Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="TheGorramBatman" data-source="post: 6366492" data-attributes="member: 6778804">I can't speak regarding some of what you're saying because I've yet to play in a game where stealth was a major factor (major enough that the whole party needed to be involved) and I've yet to play in a game where Javelins and thrown handaxes weren't "good enough" to cover most ranged encounters.Using strength for both hit and damage on thrown weapons along with the ability to essentially quickdraw a javelin each round before the attack has taken a lot of Dex's melee&ranged superiority away.  It's still better at ranged, but only about as better at ranged as a two hander with appropriate features is better at melee.  I'd really call it a wash in most cases.Frankly, regardless of the edition, if a party came under withering fire from superior range the correct answer has never been to "draw a bow and just slug it out for the duration."  The correct answer has always been to either close the distance, withdraw, or gain advantage magically.  From what I have seen, Javelins have been good enough "filler" for the strength based characters to hold out waiting for more favorable conditions.Initiative isn't as big of a deal in this edition as previous editions in my experience as Flat Footed has ceased to be a thing.  Casters using battlefield control need to go FIRST.  Any melee that goes before said battlefield control is mucking things up by getting in the way of Black Tentacles etc.  After that?  Meh.  The Rogue is no longer as reliant on going first for early Sneak Attacks and everyone else seems to be able to filter in with the monsters without nearly as much hassle as earlier editions.  Really though, not much has changed here.  If the group's Fighter beat the groups Wizard in an encounter of any significance the "tactically correct" answer has always been, "I hold my action until after the Wizard has gone" (so long as the Wiz isn't way far behind).  The Wizard's first spell shapes combat far more than anything else in an encounter and they damn well need to go first.After the first round, initiative has always been relative anyway.  It is no longer about FIRST and just about order, its significance drops greatly.  So, meh.  Init is still one of the end all be all stats for anyone attempting solid battlefield control or crowd controlling AoE, for everyone else it isn't nearly as big of a deal as people make it out to be.  With this in mind I've found myself arguing that while Wizards can cast in heavy armor with proficiency, it probably isn't a great idea to pursue a Wiz in heavy armor with no Dex bonus.Also Init hasn't been too big of a deal because the Init modifiers on the monsters I've been throwing around haven't been nearly as impressive as they were in other editions.  In 3rd or Pathfinder, having a +1 init put you behind most monsters, and behind some by a very significant margin.  Now?  Meh.  A +1 isn't really as big of a deal now from what I've seen.  I'd even say a flat 0 init isn't the "HORRIBLE OMG GROUNDBREAKING WERE ALL GOING TO DIE" situation that it definitely could be in the past.  Unless you're a Wizard, then go ahead and stack Dex and get the feat.Dex to AC is completely removed by heavy armor proficiency.  With Heavy armor a 12 is as good as an 8.  You are right about what you've noticed with Dex allocations, but I'd say those allocations have a lot less to do with "zomgDEX!" and more to do with the simple caps of how AC work.  Warlock? 16+.  Wizard?  16+.  Bard/Rogue?  16+.  Barbarian?  14.    Nerd caster cleric?  14.  Heavy Cleric/Fighter/Paladin?  8, 10, maybe 12 if they really hate their mental stats.  Though, really, the Dex distributions you described are pretty standard fare for D&D all the way back to 3.0 simply because AC is the most frequently attacked defense and more characters use light/medium armor than those that use heavy.  Two high dex, three mid dex, one low dex is the exact same distribution I'd expect to see in a 6 player Pathfinder game.Dex gives AC.  That makes it powerful.  Dex also gives Init, which can be powerful.  Most classes don't need to care about bows (spells and to a lesser extent Javelins).  I'm really not convinced that Dex is quite as powerful as people make it out to be for most practical gameplay.</blockquote>

Verification