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Message: <blockquote data-quote="PJ-Mason" data-source="post: 1648615" data-attributes="member: 12285">I haven't seen a class ability from any prestige class that could be turned into a feat or feat chain yet.What kind of BAB, Save, or spell-use boosts or variations do prestige classes give you that core classes can't? I don't think that is the case. Characters don't need a ton of feats to become a specialist in evocation magics. Or be able to cast spells through their swords, or use their turning ability on things other than undead, any other things that a particular prestige class might give them. Although i do agree that deconstruction methods can lead to lots of complex math and effort. I don't think eliminating prestige classes (as if that would EVER happen!<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />) would lead to more complexity, probably the reverse i'd say.How about this: Is it possible that maybe my experience with my group gives me more insight as to how bad the prestige class game mechanic really is? Or is it automatically the "sour grapes" diagnosis for me? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Regardless, this problem with a my group is a fairly recent one. I've had a problem with prestige classes for almost since the release of 3E. 1. It is not a good mechanic because there already more than one mechanic (feats, templates, multiclassing) in the same system that already does what prestige classes do and that are less messy at it. You may or may not agree, of course.2. Well known game designers don't even seem to be able to get a handle on how to do prestige classes, much less the average gamer. Or at least a lot of them certaintly don't seem to agree on it (including the guys who made the mechanic!) A game mechanic/model THAT subjective is not exactly a superior one. Feats and templates also have these problems as well, but to a lesser effect are much easier to deal with and do less damage to characters and campaigns (especially if taken away at some point. Taken away a prestige class after a few levels is way messy). They are also easier to gauge than pretige classes i believe.3. One of the worst things about the game mechanics isn't even game mechanics. It is this "I'm not an eldtrich knight if i don't have the prestige class" syndrome that seems so wide spread amonst players since its advent. Its the same as 2E kits. What did they do before these things? Did no one ever play an Eldritch Knight before these game mechanics? This is the biggest defense of Prestige classes ("it brings flavor that would't be there otherwise!") so thats why i mention it. Its equally puzzling to me since with feats you can do these things. its even easier to do it with core classes than to create prestige classes. In all i just think the prestige class method is clunky and very redundant. whether it effects me through my gaming group or not is just extra sludge under the bridge.  :\   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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