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<blockquote data-quote="Marcus Smythe" data-source="post: 3009464" data-attributes="member: 43198">Psion Powers Known:&nbsp; 36 total.Sorceror Spells Known: 34, excluding 0 lvl spells.&nbsp; 43, Including.(Repeat after me.&nbsp; &quot;The Sorceror is jacked because hes an attempt to spot-weld spontaneous casting onto a Vancian system&quot;.&nbsp; Add a side note of 'Alot of Psionic fans are psionic fans not because they like brain-melting, but because they like spontaneous casting, and the Sorceror is jacked.&nbsp; The sorceror is so jacked that the psi-fans are willing to give up full-progression PRCs with no class featuers to loose, and no-save-just-dies to get away from the stupidity that is a spontaneous caster being out of magic missiles but having a quiver of Meteor Swarms in his hands.&quot;)(Mind you, the new, PHB2, looses-the-familiar-for-metamagic Sorceror.. is somewhat less jacked... and a better user of metamagic than the Psion, in some ways)RE:&nbsp; A common tactic for defeating low and mid level wizards...-I always found it sufficient to simply close and munch the low to mid level wizard, with whatever baddy bruiser was willing to charge past the fighter.&nbsp; By 8-10, the Wizard should have immunized himself from such tactics in any one of a lot of ways.-Now, I'm not agreeing that this isnt an advantage to the Psion.. I just dont see it as a huge one.&nbsp; Lets face it, if every Wizard was taking still, silent, etc and apply them to every spell because they were all that great, then giving them to the Psion for free would be a huge issue.I dont think Ive seen more than a very tiny handful of players take and use these feats.&nbsp; There are simply better ways to accomplish the goal (Ring of Free Action!) and those ways are as likely to be used by the Psion as the Wizard (thus reducing the opportunity cost arguement)RE:&nbsp; A Wizard with Heavy Armor and All Martial Weapons ProficienciesActually, I pity the fool who trades any of their wizards feats for these stinkers.&nbsp; Their low value to the character in question.. about on par with the aformentioned psion abilities.RE:&nbsp; Outsider HD.Thank you for that example of how little value some feats have compared to caster levels/caster power.&nbsp; Lets face it.. the guy who takes an ECL hit for toughness?&nbsp; Thats a heckva sacrifice.Side Note:Can I get the 'Arcane is fine, psionics is broken' Crowd to comment on the 'No save Just Die' difference?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Marcus Smythe, post: 3009464, member: 43198"] Psion Powers Known: 36 total. Sorceror Spells Known: 34, excluding 0 lvl spells. 43, Including. (Repeat after me. "The Sorceror is jacked because hes an attempt to spot-weld spontaneous casting onto a Vancian system". Add a side note of 'Alot of Psionic fans are psionic fans not because they like brain-melting, but because they like spontaneous casting, and the Sorceror is jacked. The sorceror is so jacked that the psi-fans are willing to give up full-progression PRCs with no class featuers to loose, and no-save-just-dies to get away from the stupidity that is a spontaneous caster being out of magic missiles but having a quiver of Meteor Swarms in his hands.") (Mind you, the new, PHB2, looses-the-familiar-for-metamagic Sorceror.. is somewhat less jacked... and a better user of metamagic than the Psion, in some ways) RE: A common tactic for defeating low and mid level wizards... -I always found it sufficient to simply close and munch the low to mid level wizard, with whatever baddy bruiser was willing to charge past the fighter. By 8-10, the Wizard should have immunized himself from such tactics in any one of a lot of ways. -Now, I'm not agreeing that this isnt an advantage to the Psion.. I just dont see it as a huge one. Lets face it, if every Wizard was taking still, silent, etc and apply them to every spell because they were all that great, then giving them to the Psion for free would be a huge issue. I dont think Ive seen more than a very tiny handful of players take and use these feats. There are simply better ways to accomplish the goal (Ring of Free Action!) and those ways are as likely to be used by the Psion as the Wizard (thus reducing the opportunity cost arguement) RE: A Wizard with Heavy Armor and All Martial Weapons Proficiencies Actually, I pity the fool who trades any of their wizards feats for these stinkers. Their low value to the character in question.. about on par with the aformentioned psion abilities. RE: Outsider HD. Thank you for that example of how little value some feats have compared to caster levels/caster power. Lets face it.. the guy who takes an ECL hit for toughness? Thats a heckva sacrifice. Side Note: Can I get the 'Arcane is fine, psionics is broken' Crowd to comment on the 'No save Just Die' difference? [/QUOTE]

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