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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Marcus Smythe" data-source="post: 3010944" data-attributes="member: 43198">I just dont see how we can get anywhere in any sort of balance debate if you presuppose your ability to throw out anything you wish, by calling it 'Broken'.  Then we arent debating balance as between X and Y, but as between X and whatever you fell like Y is at the time.Or are you strictly limiting your exclusionary principle to Orbs, such that I can safely rely on other things in my arguements, without you having access to a 'doesnt count, broken' whenever I say something you dislike?You do, I hope, understand my reluctance to debate on the terms as they appear to be offered?As for balancing off the baseline and fixing the extremes... agreed, wholeheartedly.  With that provisio, I will be honest:1.)  I do not belive that any proof or arguement I submit will be in any fashion convincing to you. 2.)  I belive that the only chance I have to ever carry the day in such a debate is to make the outcome as one sided as possible, because anything less will simply devolve into a debate about which differences have relatively greater value.3.)  I am not comfortable with my ability, limited to core only, to decisively prove that Arcane is not just better, but so much better as to render the answer obvious.  Core only, I belive its pretty close.  Further, that would seem to require me to prove a negative 'Psionics is not Broken'.  I am much more comfortable proving a positive 'Arcane can do many things better than Psionics'4.)  As, again, we are both well aware of the impact of the baseline assumptions on the character of debate, you will pardon me if I question the purity of your motives, when those pure motives also, purely by happenstance, lead to the set of baseline assumptions that most favour your position and most hinder mine.</blockquote>

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