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<blockquote data-quote="IcyCool" data-source="post: 3011040" data-attributes="member: 20308">Since you refuse to discuss based on just the Core, yes.&nbsp; I'll give a shot at discussing Core+Complete with the just exclusion of the Orb spells.&nbsp; I'm probably forgetting something else I consider broken, but what the hell, I like to argue.Reluctance to debate on the terms of just core?&nbsp; No, I don't understand it at all.Reluctance to try and hit a moving target?&nbsp; Yes, which is why I've agreed to exclude just the orbs.I'd wager that you understand why I think using the Complete books is probably an exercise in futility (though I suppose it's remotely possible you think the Complete books are completely fair and balanced?).You'll note that I've not outlawed Psionics in my game.&nbsp; I'm well aware that different != better.&nbsp; Thus far, I have seen a very powerful showing from a wilder. I'm also not coming into this with the default mindset of &quot;Psionics is broken&quot;.I'm interested in seeing just how &quot;equal&quot; psioncs and arcane are.&nbsp; I'm not interested in &quot;Psionics is broken&quot; or &quot;Arcane is broken&quot;.&nbsp; If, in the pursuit of equality, Psionics shows itself to be obviously weaker, or obviously stronger, I think the answers to broken questions will become evident.No offence, but if you feel that a Core only comparison is a hinderance to you, then a debate would be a waste of my time.&nbsp; Regardless, I'll give a shot to discussing Core + Complete - the Orb Spells (which I think are obviously broken and which, in my opinion, make Arcane casters over the top).I rather suspect that if we were to debate on a Core basis only, we'd find that the real issue lies in a small subset of spells and powers, and not with the base classes themselves.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="IcyCool, post: 3011040, member: 20308"] Since you refuse to discuss based on just the Core, yes. I'll give a shot at discussing Core+Complete with the just exclusion of the Orb spells. I'm probably forgetting something else I consider broken, but what the hell, I like to argue. Reluctance to debate on the terms of just core? No, I don't understand it at all. Reluctance to try and hit a moving target? Yes, which is why I've agreed to exclude just the orbs. I'd wager that you understand why I think using the Complete books is probably an exercise in futility (though I suppose it's remotely possible you think the Complete books are completely fair and balanced?). You'll note that I've not outlawed Psionics in my game. I'm well aware that different != better. Thus far, I have seen a very powerful showing from a wilder. I'm also not coming into this with the default mindset of "Psionics is broken". I'm interested in seeing just how "equal" psioncs and arcane are. I'm not interested in "Psionics is broken" or "Arcane is broken". If, in the pursuit of equality, Psionics shows itself to be obviously weaker, or obviously stronger, I think the answers to broken questions will become evident. No offence, but if you feel that a Core only comparison is a hinderance to you, then a debate would be a waste of my time. Regardless, I'll give a shot to discussing Core + Complete - the Orb Spells (which I think are obviously broken and which, in my opinion, make Arcane casters over the top). I rather suspect that if we were to debate on a Core basis only, we'd find that the real issue lies in a small subset of spells and powers, and not with the base classes themselves. [/QUOTE]

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