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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Liquidsabre" data-source="post: 1695600" data-attributes="member: 15635">@Elder-Basilisk: I'm always wary as a DM when there is a single spell that institutes a sweeping change in game-play across the board. Suddenly, adventurers across the realms stop buying cure wands and start buying vigor wands. Clerics memorize a few vigor spells and spont cast them as cure spells if healing is needed in combat instead. Sure, it's never been done before, but hey just up the ante and make divine casters capable of healing even more now! It stays balance as long as you throw more creatures at the poor PCs, afterall...they can take it.The cost/value gap is what originally caught my eye, not to mention the expenditure/value gap of the spell itself when in use by a cleric/druid. Where a CLW wand costs ~2.72gp/HP and a LV wand only costs you 1.36gp/HP. Balance-wise it is a clear discrepency. Afterall if there was armor that gave the same protection but at half the price or a sword that did twice as much damage for the same price wouldn't this change a few things? Sure you can argue in the long run it doesn't matter, up or down as long as it's all relative, so why have the healing price cut in the first place then? What is the point? Are clerics so lacking in healing that they need a boost (double the healing for you! Actually more than doubles the healing for a cleric, so doesn't this mean they can heal the same and cast twice as many OTHER spells? As you say EB, adding the vigor spells really doesn't change anything. Of course, I must respectfully disagree sir!No more maximizing cure spells! Just toss this metamagic feat out the window for the cleric as the vigor spells make this use of  the feat now worthless for cure spells. Instead we now see extended and persistent vigor spells!*important note* the vigor spells have been expressed in total HPs healed rather than by duration which the CD has the vigor spells normally at: 10 rounds +1 round/level (fast heal 1), while my versions are 5 rounds +1 round/level (fast heal 1), for example.First, the Complete Divine versions of the Vigor spells and how they compare to the Cure spells (including wand usage):1stVigor, Lesser: 10+level Hp [max 15 Hp]Wand: 11 Hp/use3rdVigor: 20 + (level x 2) Hp [max 50 Hp]Wand: 30 Hp/useVigor, Mass Lesser: 1 creature/two levels (NO CAP), 10+level Hp [max 25 Hp/each]Wand: 2 creatures, 15 Hp each/use5thVigor, Greater: 40 + (level x 4) Hp [max: 140 Hp]as opposed to the cure spells…1stCure Light Wounds: 1d8+1/level Hp (max 13 Hp, ~4.5+level Hp)Wand: ~5.5 Hp/use3rdCure Serious Wounds: 3d8+1/level (max 39 Hp, ~13.5+level Hp)Wand: ~18.5 Hp/useIt's nothing to go running screaming to the hills with, or hide in a cave and subsist off of nuts & berries about, but it's still a significant change that is really uneccesary to the game, unless you want to support some kind of mass D&D "arms race", of course now arcane casters will want to be able to cast healing spells (oh wait they can CD: Arcane Disciple).  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" /> And here is my revised version of the vigor spells for those who might be interested in a comparison:1stVigor, Lesser: 5 + 1/Level Hp [max 13 Hp]Wand: 6 Hp/use3rdVigor: 10 + 2/Level Hp [max 40 Hp]Wand: 20 Hp/use5thVigor, Greater: 20 + 4/Level Hp [max 120 Hp]Vigor, Mass Lesser: 1 creature/two levels, 5 + 1/Level Hp [max 30 Hp/each]</blockquote>

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