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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 7628273" data-attributes="member: 53980">I'm not sure that's the best example. The DM is free to invent any abilities they want for a monster, so I'd never challenge a DM on that basis. I won't challenge a DM just because I disagree with a ruling, but I might if I consider that the ruling is unfair and is hurting the fun at the table. I don't try to twist the rules, but I will make the DM aware of the rules and even argue on the behalf of other players. If a rules call is ruining the fun at the table already, then IMO there's not much harm in taking the time to hash out the situation.In fact, I invite the same behavior when I am DMing, even though it goes against the common wisdom. A player who tries to twist the rules in their favor will find themselves shut down hard in my game. But if players have a serious issue with one of my rulings, we put the game on pause and hash it out. IME, it's lead to a table where players really only challenge my rulings when I've made a bad ruling. And I've learned the humility to admit when I make a bad ruling and retcon it.As another player pointed out, challenging a DM at the table can lead to issues, as some DMs will take it personally. IMO, it's actually a useful and important DMing skill to not take such challenges as personal attacks. It's a matter of hearing your players and recognizing when you've made a poor call that is pulling them out of their engagement with the game. It can definitely be an issue with a DM who hasn't learned those skills. At that point, it's definitely important for the rules guru/lawyer to be able to identify whether the issue is worth pursuing (is the mood already ruined by the call, such that challenging it can only make things better or leave them the same, or is the rest of the table willing to accept it such that you should just swallow your protest and move on). At it's best it is co-DMing, but admittedly at it's worst it is backseat DMing. I'll grant that there is a peculiar sort of player who tries to rules lawyer in order to twist the rules and power game, but in my personal experience that's been a rarity at my table. Much more often it's been about calls the player disagrees with because they feel it is unfair or simply because the call makes what they were doing play out in an unexpected manner (such as a player who has expertise in Acrobatics wanting to run across a tightrope but the DM calling for an Athletics check).</blockquote>

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