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Why should it matter what order you gain your abilities in?
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<blockquote data-quote="Akunin" data-source="post: 104590" data-attributes="member: 15"><p>The biggest benefit gained by having foresight is a better idea of when you should take a certain Feat or Skill to gain a desired result. Players with foresight don't need to be rewarded - they'll have the character turn out the way they wanted.</p><p></p><p>But giving a huge benefit to players lacking in foresight, or who don't want to take a little time to plan a character, is wrong. Hindsight, they say, is 20/20 and rewarding those players who want to "take back" poor decisions only encourages a lack of foresight.</p><p></p><p>Looking ahead and planning a career for your character in the manner I suggested takes only ten or fifteen minutes. That's not too much effort to put into making a character.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Precisely. If you don't put any thought into choices, and you find later that you made a bad choice, you shouldn't be allowed to rebuild your PC from the ground up, as was suggested by the original poster. You took a feat to gain a bonus 5th-level slot, and you want to change it to an 8th-level slot? Sorry. You took a level of Fighter, then a level of Rogue, but now you want 32 skill points, instead of 8? Sorry. </p><p></p><p>The player knew that there was a trade-off to be made, and took one route. You can't go back and change the development path traveled. </p><p></p><p>As for a swapping out of a Feat here or there, if new options become available (such as the class books example above) is a fine option, so long as the change in the Feat is in-line with the character concept. </p><p></p><p>For example, if your fighter-type has been using the Bull Rush maneuver in every fight, and a book is released that includes a Feat to improve that combat option, and you want to drop the Quick Draw Feat you picked up a couple levels back and never used, I'd be cool with that. But if Quick Draw had become an important part of your character's fighting style, I'd say "no". </p><p></p><p>In the first case, you made a choice based on what was available, and never used the ability gained, instead relying on an ability you could not improve. Trading a Feat you chose (and didn't use) because at the time you didn't have access to the Feat that made sense for the character is fine, in my eyes.</p><p></p><p>In the second, you made a choice based on your options, and made it a part of your character concept. You should not be allowed to trade it for something "better" that wasn't available before.</p><p></p><p>But re-tooling the entire PC just because the player took a +3 HP Feat at first level and qualifies for a +12 HP Feat now should be right out. You're trading in a good thing for a better thing, based only on the fact that you decided to take the good thing at an early level and not wait for a better option. And you're losing nothing in the process.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed. The tradeoffs (often, as you point out, being based on a style of play) are an important part of the game, and that's why I don't agree with making a rule to allow for an editing of a PC at each level.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Akunin, post: 104590, member: 15"] The biggest benefit gained by having foresight is a better idea of when you should take a certain Feat or Skill to gain a desired result. Players with foresight don't need to be rewarded - they'll have the character turn out the way they wanted. But giving a huge benefit to players lacking in foresight, or who don't want to take a little time to plan a character, is wrong. Hindsight, they say, is 20/20 and rewarding those players who want to "take back" poor decisions only encourages a lack of foresight. Looking ahead and planning a career for your character in the manner I suggested takes only ten or fifteen minutes. That's not too much effort to put into making a character. Precisely. If you don't put any thought into choices, and you find later that you made a bad choice, you shouldn't be allowed to rebuild your PC from the ground up, as was suggested by the original poster. You took a feat to gain a bonus 5th-level slot, and you want to change it to an 8th-level slot? Sorry. You took a level of Fighter, then a level of Rogue, but now you want 32 skill points, instead of 8? Sorry. The player knew that there was a trade-off to be made, and took one route. You can't go back and change the development path traveled. As for a swapping out of a Feat here or there, if new options become available (such as the class books example above) is a fine option, so long as the change in the Feat is in-line with the character concept. For example, if your fighter-type has been using the Bull Rush maneuver in every fight, and a book is released that includes a Feat to improve that combat option, and you want to drop the Quick Draw Feat you picked up a couple levels back and never used, I'd be cool with that. But if Quick Draw had become an important part of your character's fighting style, I'd say "no". In the first case, you made a choice based on what was available, and never used the ability gained, instead relying on an ability you could not improve. Trading a Feat you chose (and didn't use) because at the time you didn't have access to the Feat that made sense for the character is fine, in my eyes. In the second, you made a choice based on your options, and made it a part of your character concept. You should not be allowed to trade it for something "better" that wasn't available before. But re-tooling the entire PC just because the player took a +3 HP Feat at first level and qualifies for a +12 HP Feat now should be right out. You're trading in a good thing for a better thing, based only on the fact that you decided to take the good thing at an early level and not wait for a better option. And you're losing nothing in the process. Agreed. The tradeoffs (often, as you point out, being based on a style of play) are an important part of the game, and that's why I don't agree with making a rule to allow for an editing of a PC at each level. [/QUOTE]
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Why should it matter what order you gain your abilities in?
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