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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 4326218" data-attributes="member: 996">Shure, which is one reason it's not an at-will, it won't keep working over and over. It's not just one trick, either, it's any trick or tactic or bit of heroic effort or whatever that might be visualized to bring you into melee with a set of nearby enemies.&nbsp; Plus, the game is about the PCs, so when an enemy falls for this, he's usually not around to fall for it again, later.&nbsp; &nbsp;That would weaken it a lot.&nbsp; OTOH, if you make it STR vs WILL and on a hit inflict damage and move them - or, rather, move them and inflict damage, it'd actually be slightly more powerful - and very welcome, since few exploits go against anything other than AC.&nbsp;Quite a few things automatically work in 4e.&nbsp; Sleep slows everyone in the radius, even if you miss, for instance, and plenty of monster powers work the first round, then you get to save.&nbsp; And, plenty of other powers move people around or bestow status conditions as an effect or on a miss.&nbsp; So, if that's odd, a lot of things are odd.Again, you can think of it as something that doesn't always work, it's just rather than rolling to see if it works, the player gets to choose the one time he really wants it to work.&nbsp; Think of the fighter pulling similar tricks quite often, just, most of the time, they don't work.&nbsp; Then, when he really needs it, he makes the extra effort or fate smiles on him or whatever.&nbsp; I know that creates a sense of distance for the player - he's not just playing his PC, he has special knowlege of/control over the fate of his character that isn't IC.&nbsp; There's always at least a little of that in any game, sometimes it feels like 'metagaming' but sometimes it's just good for modeling a dramatic/heroic/cinematic genre to give a character an ability that is dicey and doesn't work often, from his point of view, but, from the player's point of view, is just limitted to once/day.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 4326218, member: 996"] Shure, which is one reason it's not an at-will, it won't keep working over and over. It's not just one trick, either, it's any trick or tactic or bit of heroic effort or whatever that might be visualized to bring you into melee with a set of nearby enemies. Plus, the game is about the PCs, so when an enemy falls for this, he's usually not around to fall for it again, later. That would weaken it a lot. OTOH, if you make it STR vs WILL and on a hit inflict damage and move them - or, rather, move them and inflict damage, it'd actually be slightly more powerful - and very welcome, since few exploits go against anything other than AC. Quite a few things automatically work in 4e. Sleep slows everyone in the radius, even if you miss, for instance, and plenty of monster powers work the first round, then you get to save. And, plenty of other powers move people around or bestow status conditions as an effect or on a miss. So, if that's odd, a lot of things are odd. Again, you can think of it as something that doesn't always work, it's just rather than rolling to see if it works, the player gets to choose the one time he really wants it to work. Think of the fighter pulling similar tricks quite often, just, most of the time, they don't work. Then, when he really needs it, he makes the extra effort or fate smiles on him or whatever. I know that creates a sense of distance for the player - he's not just playing his PC, he has special knowlege of/control over the fate of his character that isn't IC. There's always at least a little of that in any game, sometimes it feels like 'metagaming' but sometimes it's just good for modeling a dramatic/heroic/cinematic genre to give a character an ability that is dicey and doesn't work often, from his point of view, but, from the player's point of view, is just limitted to once/day. [/QUOTE]

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